Almost 9 million Americans will move out of state this year. A significant percentage of those will be mental health and allied health professionals. While the American Counseling Association continues to work with licensing boards across all fifty states to make practicing across state lines easier for all professional counselors, there is still work to be done.
I had been licensed for over ten years in 2002 when I closed my practice in Texas and opened up shop in Colorado. That’s when I first learned about the stamina and hoops a therapist must jump through when attempting to have her license in one state recognized by another. Over the last twelve years, I have supported other therapists on an almost weekly basis as they move in and out of different states while trying to practice independently.
When my colleague and friend, Cathy Wilson, MA, LPC, NCC was faced with a similar challenge of relocating from Colorado to Arizona, I asked her if she would be willing to share her experience and some of the lessons learned concerning reciprocity. She graciously agreed to guest post on this topic.
(If you are interested in writing a guest post, check out the guidelines here.)
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A Guest Post by Cathy Wilson, MA, LPC, NCC
Reciprocity as it currently stands may not be what you expect it to mean. I am a Licensed Professional Counselor in Colorado and a few years ago it seemed I was possibly going to move to Arizona. Circumstances ultimately changed and I will remain in Colorado, but at the time I needed to prepare to move. My first challenge in making the move possible was to get licensed in Arizona so I could work as a professional counselor there. I considered doing other work, but working with clients as a counselor is what I love to do. The following are lessons I learned along the way.
Lesson #1 – Read the New Licensing Board’s Rules Thoroughly
This may be an obvious one, but I still want to emphasize it here because when I initially read Arizona’s guidelines, I really thought I had read them thoroughly. I hadn’t. One important mistake I made was because I didn’t understand the overall structure of how their rules were written.
That huge document included not only current requirements but also their obsolete requirements. I missed a very important line that said, “This subsection expires December 31, 2006” which resulted in me using the wrong set of requirements when preparing my documentation and application. That was an extremely important and not very obvious line! Read every word of the rules, the statutes, and the application form to be very clear on what you will need to do.
Lesson #2 – Determine What Type of License You Want to Obtain
The first thing I looked for in the guidelines was whether they offered reciprocity or not. They do. However, it is not at all what I thought reciprocity meant. I thought if I were already licensed in one state, applying for reciprocity in another state would be simple and would allow me to begin working in the same capacity I already held. In reality:
- Before I could even apply, I needed to have been licensed in my state for at least 5 years;
- If I was granted a reciprocal license, I would not be able to practice independently for at least one year, and I would also have to get 1600 hours supervised; and
- After all that, I would have to go through another application process to get a regular LPC license.
I ultimately chose to apply as if I was a relatively new counselor, which still would require the same amount of time and supervision before I could work independently, and applied for a Licensed Associate Counselor (LAC) license.
Lesson #3 – Be Prepared to Spend a Lot of Time on This
I thought that since I had already gone to school and made the effort to get licensed as a Professional Counselor in one state, that it would be easy to apply with another state and get licensed. I was worthy of getting licensed already, so I shouldn’t have to prove myself all over again, right? Wrong! It took months to get all the documentation I needed before I was able to submit my initial application. I was asked to provide additional information multiple times. From the time I began actively pursuing an Arizona license, it took a total of 17 months to finally get approved.
Lesson #4 – Network with Mental Health Professions in the New State
One of the most helpful things I did was to get to know other counselors already working in Arizona. (Thanks to Tamara for this suggestion early in the process!). I joined the Arizona Counselors Association and the Private Practice Network for therapists in private practice in Arizona. I was then able to reach out to counselors who were familiar with how things worked in Arizona and had already been through the licensing process. These contacts were invaluable. Facebook, Twitter, Google+, or other social media can also be a great source for networking.
Lesson #5 – Ask a Lot of Questions
I asked a lot of questions of both the other counseling professionals in Arizona and of the person who was my contact on the Arizona Licensing Board. Sometimes I just wasn’t clear on what a requirement meant even though I had read it over and over. My contact at the Licensing Board was helpful in clarifying those matters. In addition to asking questions, there were a few times that simply talking with other professionals about my application and where I was in the process helped me to learn what questions I needed to ask.
Lesson #6 – Be Patient with Yourself
It can get discouraging. I can’t count how many times I almost gave up on the whole process. Being in this profession, we know the importance of the things we teach our clients, but I admit I had to remind myself again and again to step up my self-care and my positive self-talk to persevere.
Lesson #7 – Consider Other Options
This was a difficult thing for me to do but there were times when I had to consider the possibility that my application would be denied and if I was going to work in Arizona I may have to do something a little different. Some of the ideas I considered were the following:
- Provide coaching as well as counseling and possibly expand this aspect of my practice nationally;
- Expand my existing practice in Colorado to include contractors so that the practice would continue to produce income;
- Continue seeing clients in Colorado where I am licensed via telephone, Skype, or other media (after an initial face-to-face contact);
- Providing online counseling;
- Adding services in my practice that my contractors and I can provide such as clinical supervision and group counseling;
- Obtain employment in another capacity in the field of mental health such as getting employed by Magellan Behavioral Health as a caseworker; or
- Some combination of these.
New Beginnings
I did finally obtain the LAC license in Arizona. And, while I was working on that I combined a few of the ideas above for my practice in Colorado. I’ve expanded my existing practice to include a few other counselors who contract with me to see clients in my practice. We now offer a wider variety of services including both clinical supervision and group counseling. Even though I am no longer planning to move, the experience created unexpected growth in my business.
If you, too, have had the experience of leaving one state to practice in another, I hope you’ll share your story and lessons learned, too. My experience is just one and we can all learn from each other in navigating this often ambiguous terrain.
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Cathy Wilson, MA, LPC, NCC owns LifePaths Counseling, a private practice in Littleton, Colorado where she and other counselors providing support and guidance to clients of all ages helping them to build resilience, improve well-being, and bring positive change to their lives.
Linda Lochridge Hoenigsberg says
Hi Tamara and Cathy! Great article. Cathy, when you were thinking of expanding in the area of coaching if you had moved to Arizona, I was wondering if you would have pursued a coaching certificate. One therapist told me that as a licensed therapist, I already have what I would legally need while another therapist told me I would need to be certified. I know there is a difference between coaching and doing therapy, but wondered about your thoughts on this.
Also, I have not been clear on the guidelines for using technology to do therapy. After reading your article, I am assuming we are allowed to do this, but that most insurance companies will not pay for this so the clients must be self-pay?
Thank you ahead of time for your answers!
Cathy Wilson says
Hi Linda! Thanks very much for your comments and compliments.
My understanding about offering coaching is that certification is not required and I was not planning on pursuing that. I did read a number of books on coaching and a few short courses, and coaching is one of the services I offer. There are a lot of similarities and I think already being a therapist is great preparation to be a coach, but the context of sessions is very different. Coaching is much more of a collaborative approach with a client. I feel that understanding both therapy and coaching has made me better at each one, and there are times that the skills cross over to some extent.
Almost all of my clients are self-pay so I didn’t have to worry about insurance requirements. I have some clients through EAPs and crime victim’s compensation boards, and those organizations will not reimburse for anything except face-to-face sessions.
One of the things on my to-do list is to better understand the use of technology to do therapy, for now the most I will do is at times I schedule a telephone session with self-pay clients when they can’t make it to the office for some reason.
Thanks!
Cathy
Linda Hoenigsberg says
Thanks Cathy! Very helpful. I have read some coaching books and I am in a program for a certificate but they gave me 3 years to complete it and you know what happens with that kind of a deadline…I rarely feel like “now” is the time to work on it! ;o). Thanks again!
Cathy Wilson says
Oh Linda, I do know that kind of deadline issue! Good luck to you with it!!
Tamara Suttle says
Linda, assuming that you are under to obligations to obtain a coaching certificate and you already have the sklls, you are already over-qualified. Because coaching is such a new field, they are still vying for who gets to set the standards and what the credentialing should look like. For those reasons, if you spend much time around groups of coaches, you will begin to notice extreme differences in skillsets – even more than among mental health professionals. I know that they are eager to professionalize the field and are working hard to change this fact, however they aren’t there yet.
Cathy is right in saying that the skills often associated with coaching do overlap with some of the skills of therapy. And, she is also right to say that much of coaching is about context and focus that any given therapist may or may not already have. I say that if you went to a well-rounded and strong graduate program to get your training in one of the mental health disciplines, it is likely that you got the rudimentary skills and context before you graduated. Having said that, there are always skills that we have but need polishing up and others that we can continue to add to our arsenals.
Just remember that as a licensed mental health professional that if you are also practicing a second or even third discipline like coaching, you need to make sure that your practicing of one does not conflict with your practicing of the other. For example, while the field of coaching whole-heartedly embraces the practice of distance coaching, the laws, standards of practice, and professional ethics of your mental health discipline may in some ways restrict this practice.
Tamara Suttle says
Good morning, Linda! The short answers is “It depends.” Remember that mental health professionals in the USA are typically required to operate within the parameters of federal laws, the state laws in which they are practicing in (as defined right now by where the client is physically), the ethical guidelines of their professional associations to which they belong, and the community standards of practice. And, remember those often conflict somewhere. So before you believe that you “need to be certified” or not, make sure you know what all those laws, rules, and guideline are for your particular circumstances. Here in Colorado, the coaches lobbied to not be seen as part of the mental health community – thus averting the standards and practices and laws required of you and me.
As for the technology guidelines, I think you are referring to distance counseling. If so, that too falls within those same parameters above so it’s critical that you stay informed. Here in Colorado, assuming you are competent to effectively use the tools of distance counseling, you are still legally required to have an initial face-to-face assessment before pursuing other mental health services. However, as an example of the mixed messages that mental health professionals continue to get related to this issue, consider that the US military is fully behind distance therapy, actively prescribes and endorses it both here and abroad, and is one of the major researchers so far on the effectiveness of it.
And, concerning insurance reimbursement, that too varies considerably from company to company which means that the burden to understand what any given insurance company will / will not reimburse is left to you and your client.
Linda Hoenigsberg says
Thanks Tamara! I am printing out these answers and keeping them handy!
Lisa Knudson says
Thank you for sharing your experience Cathy. I plan to move out of Texas after practicing as an LCSW for over 20 years. By 2018, it will be close to 26 years that I will be in the field. Honestly, I am discouraged and angry to hear about the loopholes for therapists with years of training having to “prove” themselves all over again in another state. This makes no sense to have to get supervised and reapply for licensure. There has to be a simpler way! If you or anyone else reading this blog are as upset by this process as I am, consider signing the petition on change.org with 342 supporters thus far.
https://www.change.org/petitions/social-workers-and-advocates-fight-for-fair-market-compensation-equal-pay-and-one-uniform-national-licensure.
Thank you for sharing,
Lisa Knudson, LCSW
Austin, TX
Tamara Suttle says
Lisa, I am frustrated by these hoop-jumping requirements, too. It reminds me of our Congresspeople refusing to play nice with each other . . . at our expense! I believe all of the major professional organizations for each mental health discipline have organized to pursue true reciprocity i.e. portability of the right to practice across all state lines. My understanding is that the real trick is that we have to get all fifty of our licensing boards to agree to accept each other states’ licenses. (I wonder if the federal government could actually pass some legislation that would make that oh-so-cumbersome process unnecessary . . . . I doubt it would ever assume that authority but as Dr. David Kaplan pointed out, it’s not just an issue for mental health professionals. It’s an issue of accessibility to qualified mental health services for many in the general public.)
I appreciate you sharing how social workers can rally around this issue. Any psychologists out there want to share how their peeps can get involved, too?
Cathy Wilson says
Hi Tamara!
Wouldn’t that be wonderful if we could practice across state lines! That is one of the things I wonder about with online counseling and related to Linda’s earlier comments about the guidelines for using technology to do therapy…it seems to me that if you do online counseling you could be working with someone in another state. This is just one of those things I hope to have time to research soon.
This reminds me of another situation I had – a client wanted to have therapy with another family member who was out of state and do sessions with that family member on the phone with the two of in my office. The other state’s rules would not allow me to provide therapy to them in this way however. It is a shame when a the rules end up meaning that a client’s needs do not get met.
By the way, thanks very much for the opportunity to share this article with your audience!
Cathy
Tamara Suttle says
Cathy, THANK YOU for sharing your journey with us! This is such an important issue! Those practicing in the United States are so mobile that it is entirely unlikely that someone will spend their entire work life in the state they begin their career in. And, then, of course, you know (because of Colorado having so many military families and you having a daughter in the Navy,too) that these families, in particular, are confronted with these realities much more often than non-military families.
By the way, Cathy, I’m getting ready to put together a study group on distance counseling. Hoping to start in January. Will let you know the details later!
Cathy Wilson says
Oh that is an interesting point about our society being so mobile now. You are so right when you say that moving is a way of life, and especially for our military. I have several family friends who are in the military as well as my daughter, they move a lot and although there are almost always counseling resources within the military, there are times when they feel the need to seek someone outside of that environment or they’ve developed a relationship with a counselor that they would prefer to maintain…who may now be in another state!
Looking forward to hearing about that study group!
Lauren Ostrowski, MA, LPC, NCC, DCC says
Tamara, if you are considering a study group on distance counseling, I would definitely recommend discussing the credential: http://www.cce-global.org/DCC .
At this time, the Pennsylvania LPC licensing board does not have specific standards about distance counseling, although they are considering them. That information most definitely varies by state.
Tamara Suttle says
Thanks, Lauren! Will do and am looking forward to your guest post on that topic coming up soon!
Cathy Wilson says
Hi Lauren –
I am looking forward to seeing your guest post as well! With all the comments here about distance counseling I am getting more and more interested in pursuing more knowledge on it.
Thanks for your comments!
Cathy
Tamara Suttle says
I was working with a therapist this week who lives up in the Northeast where so many of the states are just a hop-skip-jump before you are in to the next one. She is interested in providing distance therapy and frustrated because she lives 30 minutes from the state line and an hour from another state line and most of her clients come to her from “out of state” rather than her own state.
Oooooh! I just thought of a quick challenge to throw out to distance therapy guru DeeAnna Nagel and the Online Therapy Institute! (Think I’ll take this to the front of this blog in a quick blog post next week and see if I can get her attention – heh heh heh. If you guys are game . . . check back in on Monday and the PLEASE CHIME IN:)
Delphine Herman says
Tamara,
While I was in Denver for the recent ACES convention, one of the workshops I attended was the 20/20 vision of ACA on portability. In hearing the Dr. Kaplan and others speak, it was apparent how difficult this process will be. Attempting to get 50 licensing boards to agree is going to take a lot of time and lobbying. While it may become interesting for those of us currently practicing, my thought is that it many be easier for current students as so many of the state counseling associations are working with their licensing boards on making CACREP a requirement for licensure. As this happens moving state to state may become easier as all standards will be the same.
Tamara Suttle says
Ohhh, Delphine! Didn’t make it to ACES dues to a conflict. Lucky you for getting to attend! Yes, you are right, of course. Those that come after us will reap the biggest benefits from the efforts we put forth. It reminds me of the work done by the Women’s Movement of the 1960’s and 1970’s. Surely, there will be more work to be done but those early steps will likely be overlooked and forgotten by counselors down the road. That’s the good news and the bad news.
And, while uniformity of standards will certainly increase the likelihood of moving closer to our ultimate goal of reciprocity, it’s also encouraging that Dr. Kaplan has noted that in the USA, states are typically falling into 3 tiers of similar requirements for licensure. If I understand correctly, that means that there are already groups of states who will grant reciprocity (or near reciprocity) to professionals from at least some other states. It’s not ideal . . . but it is movement in the right direction.
Lauren Ostrowski, MA, LPC, NCC, DCC says
David Kaplan presented at the Pennsylvania Counseling Association conference last year. In his keynote address, he discussed the definition of counseling and the fact that it has been agreed upon that the term for a licensed counselor will be Licensed Professional Counselor across all 50 states. I don’t know how long it will take for this to take effect, but he stated that this would be an important step.
Maybe he would even be willing to post here about licensure portability or join in with this conversation to discuss what each of us can independently do about licensure portability. Beyond supporting ACA and state branches’ efforts to help with this, I’m not certain what each of us can do individually.
Cathy Wilson says
Lauren – that would be great if Dr. Kaplan has an opportunity to comment here about what each of us can do!
Thanks,
Cathy
Cathy Wilson says
Hi Delphine – thanks so much for your comments!
CACREP raises a whole area of my journey that I didn’t go into in my original post. Way back when I originally chose a graduate school program, I did not understand the importance of CACREP at ALL. I chose a program that was not accredited, but was in the process of seeking accreditation. They achieved it five months after I graduated and I was “grand-fathered” in to be able to say I was in a CACREP-accredited program. However, this created a lot more hoops for me to jump through in trying to get licensed in Arizona. Colorado was familiar with my program (Regis University in Denver, CO) and documenting what I needed was simple. Arizona was not, so I had to obtain extra documentation from CACREP before Arizona’s Board would allow it.
All of the work that counselors, associations, state boards, and ACA do to standardize requirements is definitely going to be of long-term benefit to counselors that come after us!
Thanks-
Cathy
Tamara Suttle says
Oh, Cathy! Thank you for sharing this piece of your journey! And, cheers to Regis for actually doing what they said they would do! I know of past students who attended another program who claimed all the way through their training that they were “pursuing CACREP accreditation” and assured their students that by the time they graduated, they would be graduating from a CACREP accredited program here in Colorado. However, when graduation day came, not only was the program NOT CACREP accredited . . . . The program hadn’t even started to pursue the accreditation! My understanding is that cohort of students actually threatened legal action and eventually settled out of court with the school for extra free training! Hopefully, as we move toward reciprocity, shisters like this will be forced to ante up or close down!
The moral of the story . . . do your homework!
Ken says
Hello Cathy,
I feel we as MSW, LMHC, LMFT, and ect. should correspond with our professional organizations to stop regulations like CACREP and grandfathering. Our pay is to low to get further regulations like these.
Also, I feel our professional organizations have forgotten half of why we pay for their membership fees is to guard us against over regulations like these. We are not stenographers and no one is saying we will get paid more for more regulations like CACREP, so what clinical reason is there for CACREP?
In short I feel professional organizations like the ACA should protect consolers like the nursing union does for their professionals. What to you think?
Thanks Ken.
Mark Jorges, MS, LCDC says
Social Work and Psychology are different fields. Yes they intersect in some places, but the only SW who can counsel are LCSW, whereas in the field of Psychology, we run the gamut of Addictions Counselors, Mental Health Counselors and Marriage & Family Counselors. Our goals are different as well as our educational/licensure requirements.
When I was completing my Master’s program, my program director made sure to remind us to check about portability before we thought about moving to a different state.
I don’t suspect that we’ll ever have a universal licensure program because every state has their own idea of what requirements should be for their respective populations.
“Just because we want what we want, doesn’t mean we get what we want”.
We don’t live in an ideal world. Our job as Mental Health Clinicians is to model for our clients and part of that is taking responsibility for our choices.
At my worksite, we have an LMFT associate from Florida who moved to Texas without first checking about our state’s requirement for the LMFT. Because she didn’t check first, she will lose the 1,000 hours of supervision she completed, plus she will need to take the LMFT licensure exam first before she can even start supervision.
Hard lessons, yes, but part of being a professional is knowing the ins and outs of the licensure you plan to uphold.
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Mark! Thanks for dropping in to join the conversation here!
You are right, of course, that the path to reciprocity is convoluted and complicated at best; and, “part of being a professional is knowing the ins and outs.”
It is also true that as a practical optimist, I know that none of us started off as a “professional” and that each of us developed that professional mindset over time.
I appreciate the points you make in encouraging counselors-in-training to do their research and to take responsibility for making informed choices.
The “wrong” choices can be costly.
Francine Pritt says
I am licensed LPC and actively working in my private practice in PA. Licensed inTX with an inactive status.
My husband I plan to move to FL in the next two years, my concern is and from what I believe I have to take another exam. (Its been 20 years since I took one) and wonder what else FL expects from me, including If I have to do supervision hours.
Tamara Suttle says
All are valid concerns, Francine, and I would encourage you to put them all in writing and direct them to the licensing board in Florida.
I say this rather than offering a more direct answer because I and your colleagues – with the best intentions possible – are still not THE SOURCE for this info.
You want to not make mistakes, not receive and act on inaccurate information with something as critical as your license.
Wishing you the best on your journey!
And, I do hope you’ll drop back in right here to let us know what you learn!
Cathy Wilson says
Lisa, I just realized that I replied to your comment in the wrong place, I hope you saw that!
Cathy Wilson says
Hi Lisa – thanks for commenting! I completely agree that it is discouraging!! Quite a few times in the process I couldn’t believe how difficult it was and really felt like I was going backwards with having to prove myself again for licensure, get supervision again and not be able to practice at the same level I do now. It didn’t make sense and I initially asked them if they ever consider extenuating circumstances like mine and would possibly agree to granting me a full license because of my experience and I got a resounding “NO.”
I will check out the link you shared – Thanks!!
Cathy
Mary Hall, MA LPC says
Re: post from Cathy Wilson
Hi Lisa – thanks for commenting! I completely agree that it is discouraging!! Quite a few times in the process I couldn’t believe how difficult it was and really felt like I was going backwards with having to prove myself again for licensure, get supervision again and not be able to practice at the same level I do now. It didn’t make sense and I initially asked them if they ever consider extenuating circumstances like mine and would possibly agree to granting me a full license because of my experience and I got a resounding “NO.”
What link to CACREP were you referring to ? there was no link in the post…
Thanks
Colleen Shea says
Thank you Cathy and Tamara! This is a big surprise and very disturbing. Will look forward to hearing more.
Tamara Suttle says
Good morning, Colleen! I haven’t heard your voice here in forever! Welcome back!
You should know that while Cathy’s experience was a bit of a nightmare, mine was just the opposite. The standards in Texas were higher for Licensed Professional Counselors than they were / are here in Colorado, so I literally moved here, filled out the application, paid my money, and took a quick jurisprudence class (that is now online) that concluded with a quick jurisprudence exam, and got my license two weeks later.
I tell you that and shared Cathy’s experience to highlight the vast differences and potential potholes for mental health professionals to consider all the possibilities ahead of time rather than assuming it’s going to be an easy transition. Just do your research and be prepared.:)
Cathy Wilson says
Thanks for your comments Colleen! Tamara is correct, it was a bit of a nightmare. And, Arizona’s requirements are much tougher than those in Colorado. So in a way, I was going the opposite direction than Tamara when she got licensed here. Gathering information and persevering paid off in the end, however!
Thanks!
Cathy
Lisa I. Volk says
Cathy:
Most definitely a long-standing and difficult issue to grapple with. I moved from California to Colorado and experienced similar problems, but seemingly not as difficult as the ones you describe. I am from Arizona and I am MAD at my own idiot state; how dare they mess you about like that! Especially the part about the additional hours under supervision requirement. Even CA and NY do not require this, and they have some of the highest standards for licensure in the country. I admire your ability to persevere under such duress.
I have also experienced the problem of counseling people long-distance. I know for a fact that CA law requires that one hold a CA license to counsel someone living in that state. I happened to agree in the particular situation that it was not clinically wise to do what the client was asking (couples therapy without one party present – one party at a distance) but can see how it could interfere in a case like the one you described. I would love to know what the Online Therapy Institute has to say about this sort of thing, because I cannot believe this is not an issue in other states. I will be awaiting the reply to Tamara’s inquiry. By the way, the Online Therapy Institute offers an ethics course (online naturally) and I’ve decided that this year I will pursue it, as there are many other issues that come to mind when I think about this form of therapy. Also, I would be very interested in your course offering Tamara, when it comes together!
My thought has always been that the states have different rules so that they can (1) control their own commerce, and (2) control their INCOME. Hoop jumping is just the unfortunate side-effect. If, at the very least, reciprocity rules could be unified state to state, it would be a help. Each state having its own 2-foot thick manual on the “how to…” is ridiculously burdensome.
Thanks Cathy for outlining the “how to…” so clearly.
Cathy Wilson says
Lisa! I’m so glad to see you here, and thanks for your comments.
You raised some important points about why individuals states would want to control their own licensure and unless I am missing something, I think they could control their own commerce, control their income, AND also have unified standards for mental health professionals that would allow for something closer to true reciprocity.
The technology advances that have brought us online counseling and client demand for that may push for more unity in the standards long before the frustrated voices of members in our field would.
Thanks!
Cathy
Tamara Suttle says
Lisa, in my experience it is the therapists who have already experience this that are the most active in getting the laws and rules changed. Unfortunately, those that have yet to be affected by this situation are often less motivated to take action.
shanowa Simington says
Hi Tamara,
Do you feel the same is true with California requirements/standard and Colorado? We are currently considering moving to Colorado from California.
Do you have any advice on where I would start with collecting the accurate information regarding the transfer/relicensing procedure? Does California BBS help with answering these questions or Colorado Board of Behavioral Health? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Warmly,
Shanowa
Linda Hoenigsberg says
That sounds great Tamara…and this conversation is so valuable.
April Shields says
After reading through the comments here I wanted to weigh in on my experience I recently became licensed in Wisconsin from Louisiana. Their reciprocity process sounds a lot like Tamara’s. I filled out a lengthy application then took a jurisprudence exam. It was easy peasy! Last year I was planning to move to Florida and started the process there which was much more difficult and expensive. The move fell through and didn’t end up finishing the process. I was relieved when I received my Wisconsin license last week, having been way easier than I expected.
As far as distance counseling goes, I have my DCC credential through CCE and am currently doing counseling only through distance technologies. This has been a big help while I transition states, but I started my online practice before I knew I was moving, it’s something I really enjoy. If all works out I will continue my distance practice even after I’m settled. I’ve included coaching in my online practice as well. My counseling style leans more towards coaching anyway. Most of my experience has been through an EAP office, which a lot of times ends up being more coaching than counseling.
Cathy Wilson says
Hi April, thanks so much for your comments!
Your first experience and Tamara’s are more in line with what I expected when I first thought about getting licensed in Arizona. Do some paperwork, they check you out, and you’re licensed in another state. Clearly it is easier in some states than others!
I appreciate you sharing some details about distance counseling and coaching as well. I think it is a great idea to diversify the services we provide. Not only for multiple income sources but at least for me, this keeps my work fresh and interesting as well.
Thanks!
Cathy
Tamara Suttle says
The most successful therapists I know . . . the ones that seem to be recession-proof . . . the ones that seem to be resilient in the face of changes with managed care . . . those are the therapists that have tightly niched their practices and diversified their incomes. And, those are two things that every practitioner has the ability to do right now!
Tara Miller says
This is definitely a frustrating area – educated, experienced therapists should be able to practice anywhere in this continent when graduating from CACREP or other accredited programs. I graduated with my Master of Counselling from Gonzaga in WA state and practice in BC Canada. I have been in private practice for 2 years and have post grad specialized trauma therapy training certificates and thousands of hours of experience and supervision. And yet… if I were to move to Texas where my future spouse lives (and he can’t move because of lack of lateral transfer for firefighters), I would not be eligible for any licensing. They would require 2 additional courses, passing the two state and national exams, and a complete repeat of my entire internship program. I’d be reversing my career 5 years from where I am now and not be able to restart my private practice for as much time. I’d be where I am not professionally in my late 40s.
In the meantime all those years I could be helping people in trauma the way I am trained to. The only “loophole” seems to be to work as a coach but that would inhibit the trauma therapy that I specialize in.Moving closer for me, to Washington is a bit of an easier process – but because of the same lack of reciprocity, my firefighter boyfriend is held hostage by his city the way each state holds their counsellors hostage as well. It’s a system that doesn’t make any sense to me and seems too rigid to really navigate through.
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Tara! And, welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out! I appreciate you sharing your circumstances here to let others see the potential complications when relocating.
I’m also curious . . . . Many of those in our community here are interested in practicing outside of the United States. I’m wondering how it is that you came to practice in British Columbia, Canada and what the process was like to legally practice there. Care to share?
Tara Miller says
I’m not sure what the immigration process is… but as far as practicing. You need to have your masters from an accredited program and most of them have the required supervised hours within those masters programs. If you have your masters you can register with any of the registration bodies and practice. There are a couple different registration bodies and each has slightly different requirements but for mine with the province of BC, my degree and letters of recommendation were enough and I’ve been practicing ever since. It seems to me that for the most part – although I haven’t looked at every province – if you have the appropriate degree from an accredited university, we recognize you as a qualified professional. There is one registration body that allows for the transfer as well as 3 years of experience if your degree falls outside of the accreditation. Either way – if you’re educated, you’re qualified and with supportive letters that verify your expertise and professional worth, you’d be able to practice once you were able to get your landed immigrant status. To move the the US there is a wait list before you’re allowed to even work – which is bizarre because you’d think it would benefit the country to have immigrants who can become self sufficient from day 1!
Tamara Suttle says
Hey, thanks, Tara, for dropping back in to share what you know about this. Are you saying that your accredited program was in the USA and that BC accepted it? Or, are you indicating that you completed an accredited program in BC?
tara says
Mine was an accredited CACREP program from the US that was accepted in BC. In part because the program was designed in partnership with the provincial requirements but regardless would have been accepted from the university’s program in the US. A lot of the programs from the US supercede what is needed here so the transfer coming up this way should be…”should be” easier.
Dashita says
Would you happen to have information regarding practicing in Quebec? I have an LPC in New Jersey, in the process of applying for licensure in Florida. My fiancé is Canadian and I would like to know what my options are in regards to Canada. Thank you!
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Dashita! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out! I do not have info on practicing in Quebec but I do have a few suggestions . . . .
First, I have quite a few Canadians who follow this blog. Perhaps if you and I circulate this post on social media, one of them will see it and drop in here to share info.
Second, I have a private Facebook group by the same name exclusively for mental health professionals. I don’t remember if you are already a member there but . . . if not, how about joining us there to see if someone might have info that you will find useful?
Cathy Wilson says
Hi Tara, good to see your comments here! Your situation sounds very frustrating and it seems to me as well that it shouldn’t be so difficult to change where we do our work. That feeling of going backwards is definitely something that resonates for me, with my experience in possibly moving to Arizona. I definitely felt like I would have been going backwards in my career and that the experience I had gained both as a clinician and as a businessperson was devalued!
I hope that something changes for you and your fiancé that makes it possible for both of you to do work that is important to you…and be together while you do it. Best wishes to you!
tara says
Thank you! What it looks like so far is that if I want to be in this relationship I have to give up my counseling career. And be dependent and unemployed in the state if Texas with my two kids. That’s an unfortunate and extra large sacrifice unless there are other ways to continue practicing there.
Tamara Suttle says
If you really want to put that counseling career into practice, even if you choose to be dependent unemployed in Texas for a while, I would encourage you to consider going to work for an agency or organization in which you could gain the supervised experience you need to pursue the license.
I understand that it’s a major setback on your career path. Starting over always is. And, I’m really sorry that you are having to negotiate this journey. But, Tara, it doesn’t have to be an ending . . . unless that is what you choose. And, you aren’t starting over from the beginning. These are new challenges and new hoops for you to jump through. And, it’s understandable that you’re not happy about them. Just consider giving yourself permission to have a big-ass temper tantrum . . . maybe for a week . . . maybe for a month. And, when your time is up . . . it’s time to think outside the traditional answers to create a new one.
What I know is that Cathy had to do that when she was looking to relocate to Arizona. She wasn’t happy at all with the choices she was presented with. In preparing to go with the answers she had in hand, she did find how she could remain in the field . . . . And, while she didn’t end up relocating, I believe (and correct me if I’m wrong, Cathy) that she came out of that whole experience with some new ideas and practices that enhanced / expanded her current business.
Tara, you can do that, too. You can find the gifts that are showing up in this ugly package. I’m sending good thoughts your way and hoping you’ll be back later this year to share what some of them are! Blessings to you on your journey!
Cathy Wilson says
Tara, I think there is a tendency for things to look that way at first but I also agree with Tamara that after a while, you may find some opportunities that are interesting, creative, and rewarding. Just for the record, I can vouch that a big-ass temper tantrum can be cathartic and liberating! After I had mine, that is when I put some new ideas into practice. I hope to hear from you later as well, to hear how things are going for you!
Tara Miller says
Thank you for your responses and kind encouragement. I haven’t yet decided if I’m going to go forward with the move and continue to hope for a change along the way to make things a bit more streamlined and to avoid having to wait until I’m 45 or so to reopen my practice. it’s a difficult choice – my practice is growing here nicely and after a lot of hard word as a single mom to move in this direction it’s promising to see it begin to thrive right where I am! If I decide to make the move to the US and get married I’ll definitely post my progress or pitfalls and I am sure will have some tantrums along the way. Still praying for a miracle of reciprocity in the meantime 😉 If I do end up moving I might just go back and get my PhD as the amount of time to do that is almost the same as the 2 extra courses and all the supervision I’d require just to transfer and get my license! I’ll have this figured out by the time I hit 50 or just keep plugging away here. 😉
Lauren Ostrowski, MA, LPC, NCC, DCC says
Tara, thank you so much for sharing your journey with us here. I certainly hope that reciprocity becomes a reality soon. I know that the American Counseling Association is working hard to do that in this country, although it has been slow going.
I just wanted to mention that it sounds like you are thinking that if you get your PhD, that will take the place of some requirements for the differences between licenses. This could be the case for certain parts, like the coursework, and some of the supervision, but the PhD doesn’t take the place of the license. You’d want to make sure that the requirements for supervisors for the state where you want to move are met within the PhD program if you do choose to go that route.
Best of luck to you and please keep us posted!
Tim Edquilag, MA, LPC, NCC, ACS says
Good afternoon everyone,
I will be relocating to Arizona in April 2015 and am currently working with the Board of Behavioral Health Examiners for my license.
I am currently licensed as an LPC in my home state of NJ and after checking the LPC requirements, should have the pre-requisites to obtain my LPC in Arizona as well through their general LPC license application (I have not held my LPC in NJ long enough for the AZ License by Endorsement).
However, I am currently having issues with some of the paperwork with the AZ Board as there are some documentation requirements AZ has that is not required for LPC licensure in NJ.
I was hoping to be connected to a resource that is aware of the AZ Board’s policies for out of state and may have encountered a similar situation?
Thank you and any resources is very much appreciated.
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Tim! So sorry you’re having to jump through a few hoops to get licensed in Arizona. Truthfully, someone in the Board of Beahvioral Health Examiners in Arizona will be your best source for this information. However, if you are looking for some other organization, you might try the Arizona Counselors Association. (Here’s their Facebook page – https://www.facebook.com/azcounselorsassociation), the Arizona Association for Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselors (Here’s their facebook page – https://www.facebook.com/Arizona-Association-of-Alcohol-and-Drug-Abuse-Counselors-134282956714733/), or the Arizona Division of the American Association for Marriage & Family Therapists (Here’s their Facebook page – http://www.azamft.org/ohana/website/index.cfm?p=95575656307).
Best wishes on your journey!
Rachel says
Hello!
I am a Licensed Creative Arts Therapist (-Permit, soon to be fully licensed) in NY, the only state that licenses creative arts therapists. My graduate studies have given me all but perhaps two classes that I need to meet educational requirements for an LMHC in my home state of HI, but I’m having difficulty with 1) getting a response from the licensing board around whether they will accept my practicum and perform an educational review, and 2) identifying ways to take the one or two classes I have a feeling I might need.
Any advice?
Mahalo!
Rachel
Elizabeth White Heinz says
I encountered the same problem when I moved to CO from MI (where I had been licensed as a Limited Licensed Psychologist for 17 years). I was told I needed to go back to school to obtain an LPC, so I decided to do Adult Foster Care instead. I actually look at my not being able to get licensed as a blessing in disguise – I love my job!
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Elizabeth! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out!
I love your story!
What I know is that sometimes gifts come in ugly packages!
How long ago did you move from Michigan to Colorado?
And, where are you in Colorado?
Lindsay says
Hello,
This was a really informative article. I am currently in the process of deciding where to get my masters degree. I applied for schools all over the place and I realized none of them are CACREP accredited. How important is that when getting a degree? I started making plans to attend a school in Massachusetts but now I’m worried that it is not accredited by any agency and the process of trying to get the license back in Colorado might be insane if I try to move back here. Any advice would be appreciated!
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Lindsay! This is such a great question!
In my opinion, attending a CACREP accredited school is really important in that the entire counseling profession (and all your potential employers) will know that there is a uniform standard of training that you have completed – one that will leave you competent to enter the field ready to practice.
That’s not to say that non-CACREP accredited schools are lesser in their preparation; but CACREP has set a standard that is understood and accepted in the USA.
By attending a school that is not CACREP accredited, you will be making it much harder on yourself – possibly due to the differences in training, but also, more likely you will find that gaining (or not) interviews and ultimately jobs and credentials will be influenced by that choice.
Do yourself a favor and pursue a graduate program that is CACREP accredited if you intend to practice in the field of counseling.
Georgia Bryce says
Great read and informative!
I too am exploring seeking reciprocity for LMFT from FL to NC. It was daunting to learn about the minimum 5 year licensure requirement since I just received my license this year. Though I reached out to NC Board to query policy, I was told to submit application as though it was my first time submitting for licensure (still not clear).
Your writer shared about continuing with virtual clients in Colorado. I wanted to inquire about the Board’s position with the therapist now living in another state. I am making the assumption that all clients are from Colorado only, correct?
I currently do work through the BetterHelp Forum and am also planning to begin initiating Telehealth under my pp. Any insight would be appreciated.
Kind Regards,
Georgia
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Georgia! Thank you for dropping in to chat this week!
Starting over in a new location really can be daunting!
I did that when I moved from Texas to Colorado.
I was . . . challenging at best!
One of the things I learned the hard way is to not trust the opinions and advice about “which practices are legal and which practices are not” when well-intentioned colleagues offer it; always go directly to the source AND get their answers in writing.
The only one who can tell you if your assumptions are in sync with the current (frequently changing) Colorado laws for LMFTs is their licensing board.
You can find them here – https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dora/Marriage_Family_Therapy.
Please do yourself a favor and contact them regarding when and where you can work with clients long-distance.
And, while you are at it, check in with them about working through the BetterHelp Forum.
Better to have all the information up front so that you can make an informed decision moving forward.
Best wishes to you on your journey!
Sean Homsher says
Hi, I’m
Waiting for my Pennsylvania LPC, I have my NCC already, and I’m wondering where that’s portable too. I would love step down from the hustle and bustle of eastern PA and to set up a practice elsewhere, but I’ve heard everything from the PA LPC is very portable, to trying to understand the rules of portability, and it’s looking like I’m stuck in PA forever.
I’d be grateful for any insight.
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Sean! Thanks for dropping in to chat!
I’m sorry that you’re feeling stuck and want to assure you that, while it’s not always easy to relocate to another state or country in the field of mental health, it is usually possible.
That’s not to say that there is reciprocity.
As of this date, there are often additional requirements for professionals who relocate and want to practice independently.
Those requirements can vary from needing to complete simple open-book quizzes on your new state’s jurisprudence exams to taking additional continuing education and / or acquiring additional clinical supervision.
But, I doubt you are truly “stuck.”
The only way you’re going to know for sure what steps you need to take to practice independently is to (1) identify your desired location and (2) communicate with the licensing board in that location about their specific requirements.
And, wherever you end up, I hope you’ve be active and vocal in working to gain reciprocity for Professional Counselors across the USA.
Best wishes on your journey!
Kathy Tshudy says
Hi,
I have not taken the NCC as of yet, but have everything else done for my LPC. I am in the process of moving to FL from PA. From what I am gathering LPC doesn’t exist there? I have no idea what I will do, as I have worked in mental health for the past 30 years.
Tamara Suttle says
Don’t forget that some agencies will hire non-licensed professionals.
With your education and experience, perhaps that will be a way in to the mental health system in Florida when you arrive?
Heather says
Hi, I’m a PLPC right now, but my boyfriend and I want to move from Missouri to another state after I’m fully licensed here. We aren’t sure which state at this time, but we are looking for a more big city life. I’m trying to figure out if I can practice online counseling from another state to Missourians since that’s where I’ll be licensed if I end up in a state where they don’t accept the NCE. I’m thinking I probably have to contact my licensing board here but maybe you have some ideas or answers. I’d love to hear them.
Warmly,
Heather
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Heather! Your licensing board in Missouri is definitely the first place you want to check in with. What they say is critical for maintaining your license there. Additional places that you may want to check in with will include your liability insurance company – they often provide free legal advice to you annually as a perk – and / or a mental health attorney who is practicing in Missouri. Then you will want to also check any ethical codes that your professional associations require adherence to. Best wishes on your journey!
Christina says
This was exactly what I needed to read. I have been trying to convert my intern license from California to Florida and saying I feel frustrated, defeated, and at the end of my rope is putting it lightly. I have finished my clinical intern hours and am ready to apply to take the test, but navigating transferring these hours to Florida has been nothing short of an ongoing nightmare. In my desperation today I searched “transferring MFT license convoluted” in hopes of finding some other folks that have had this struggle. I’m glad I found this! I have been feeling like I am the only person who is struggling in this process.
I have had to sign up for FOUR additional courses (despite seeing clients for five years already!) because of a technicality between states. I had to have all my supervisors re-sign all 3000 hours on Florida specific paperwork (they had already done this on california paperwork). The hyper-specific language of license requirements is not easily translating between california and florida. I am at my wits end. I actually gave up for an entire 8 months and just decided to be a barista instead. I’ve started to dive back in to the process. After reading this I feel less guilty about all the questions I’ve been asking my contact at the board. And knowing it took someone else 17 months is comforting. I was beginning to think I was just not smart enough to navigate the process. Looks like it’s more the process’ fault than mine!
Tamara Suttle says
Hi, Christina!
Thank you for joining the conversation about reciprocity.
It has been an exercise in frustration for many of us and should be a reminder to us all to join our professional associations – both national and local – and to get involved with them, too.
They are the ones who are advocating for us – at both the national and state levels – to get these laws changed state-by-state.
Professionals who hang out on the fringes of our profession including those who don’t join, those who don’t participate in, and those who don’t speak up are the ones who keep us living professionally in the dark ages.
I would encourage you to keep the faith and hone your skills in persistence and speaking out on this issue.
While whining and complaining may not serve us well, telling our stories to our professional association can and will make a difference – perhaps not in time for yours and my needs to be met but surely in time for those who come after us.
We know that the need for reciprocity is only going to continue to expand in the future.
Ryan Espinoza says
So many hoops even in 2021. I am looking in the NY licensure process and looks like my NCE from the NBCC that Colorado allows might not work in NY. My research is only about an hour in though, and looks like I would need to take the NCMHCE. Fun times.
Thank you for the article and idea to connect with other therapists that live in the area!
Tamara Suttle says
Best wishes, Ryan! Hope you’ll stay in touch!
Kathy Tshudy says
Hi,
I found this article helpful. I live in PA and I am moving to FL. I have been working in the field of mental health for 30 years. I have a BS in Psychology and an MS in Criminal Justice and Applied Behavior analysis. I have been working as a behavior specialist& mobile therapist for the past 6 years. I have completed all supervision hours group and independently to become an LPC in PA. I also have a license from the board of medicine in PA to be a licensed behavior specialist. I have been researching if I take the LMHC licensed mental health counselor exam in Florida, will I meet all the requirements? I am really hoping I don’t need to get another MS in counseling as I really couldn’t afford to do that and at 52, it would take too much time. Has anyone had any experiences with this in Florida from another state?
Tamara Suttle says
Here’s a quick link, Kathy to the licensing in Florida for professional counselor – https://floridasmentalhealthprofessions.gov/licensing/licensed-mental-health-counselor/.
Before you finish doing your research, you might also want to consider if it might serve you well to pick up the license first in Pennsylvania since you said that you are now qualified to apply for that license there.
Some states will grant reciprocity – or at least reduce the requirements – if you have already been licensed in another state.
Not sure if Florida does this or not.
Best wishes on your journey!