Last month I was on one of my favorite online discussion lists for counselors and counselor educators, CESNET-L, when I ran across Isabel Kirk’s request for information on consulting fees. She wrote . . .
I would like to get some ideas about how much consulting fees range in our field. Do you consider your fee per hour in the room as a reference or not at all?. Any thoughts would be truly appreciated.”
When a colleague on CESNET-L responded by stating that because of antitrust issues, the topic could not be discussed on a professional listserv, I offered to house the discussion here. I am hoping that any of you who provide consulting services will drop in here to offer your own thoughts on this subject.
My assumption is that your hourly fee i.e. your clinical fee is based on what you want / need your minimum income to be. And, that is the only correlation that your hourly fee should have to your consulting fee.
Clients don’t buy your time . . . . They buy value i.e. the results that you can help them achieve. With that in mind, I set my consulting fees based on the value that I provide to my clients. For example, I know that when I show you how to find a niche for your practice, I have shifted your practice from one that blends into the crowd to one that is unique, memorable, fun and easy for you to effectively talk about – and those things increase your bottom line.
When I teach you how to use social media to find and build strategic relationships for your practice, I have in effect helped you to find more hours in the day to do the work that you love and earn more money.
When I help you understand the importance and value of branding yourself as your practice, I have easily helped you expand your visibility and earning potential.
And, when I show you the many ways that you can attract new clients to your practice, I have given you the tools you need to exponentially increase your income.
See what I mean? What’s important is not how many hours you work for a client. It’s the results that enable them to achieve their goals. That’s what you are charging for.
My consulting fees range from $60 / hour for small group coaching to $250 / hour for private 1:1 services with a range of fees and services in between. Likewise, my public speaking fees begin at $2000 / day plus expenses and go up depending on the size of the audience.
If you have experiences / thoughts about consulting fees, I hope you will take time to share your thoughts so that Isabel and others in mental health can learn from you, too!
What a great blog! I have realized that I offer my consulting for free with colleagues and never thought that perhaps I could charge for assisting others. I have helped many with finding a niche or how to market online. The struggle I have been having is that many of these colleagues are also friends. So my question is when do you charge for consulting? I have found that some of my lunch dates, that I thought were social gathering, have turned into me assisting colleagues in expanding their business. I enjoy assisting but I also get disappointed at times, as I had not anticipated the lunch to be a business meeting. I know part of it is me setting boundaries. But I struggle with both, setting the boundary and knowing when to charge. I think the hard part for me is I am newer in the field so I don’t believe my knowledge is as valuable. Then again I also have had a practice grow very quickly so I must be doing something right. So then I ask myself do I not deserve a fee when I share information that took me a lot of work to implement and understand. For instance if I spend my whole lunch assisting them in finding their niche am I not providing a value that is worth a fee? I like how you state that they “buy value”. So perhaps what I could do to set the boundary is state, “If we are going to discuss business my rate is $60 an hour for consulting”. Ouch that pains me as I write it, as I feel a little guilty saying it. Do others struggle with this? My question is how do you charge a colleague/friend for a consulting fee?
Lyndsey, good for you for even asking the questions! You bring up several different but related issues . . . .
1. Do you have something of value to share? If you are interested in consulting and you can’t identify what this is then this is the place to start.
2. Do you want to earn money from it or consider it community service or just being a friend or consider it part of a reciprocal referring relationship? All of those are viable options. And, so is mixing them up.
I absolutely have struggled with this repeatedly and am revising my services even as we speak. The truth is that it is a balancing act. And, boundaries – especially my own – are the key here.
If you decide to offer consulting fees as part of your business to friends and colleagues you need to be clear in your own mind about the value are providing to them and be willing to spell it out. Your line “If we are going to discuss business . . . ” is fine. So is being proactive and sending out an email saying something like “I’m proud to announce the expansion of my practice to include consulting related to niche-building. Because you are one of my closest friends, I would like to take you to lunch within the next 30 days and pick your brain about my plans.” That might signal and end to the freebies but also an opportunity to also allow them to repay your generosity with some very valuable feedback. At the end of that meeting, you could then decide if / when / what you might want to transition them to client status.
I believe I tend to err on the side of generosity with my friends and even strangers. I share lots of what I know and hope that my friends, colleagues, therapists-in-training, supervisees, and, yes, even strangers will share my name as someone who is worth hiring for an hour or a year’s worth of consulting and public speaking / keynoting, too. It is important to remember, though, that it is a balancing act. I designate when and where (like here on this blog) I choose to give my time, energy, and resources and I don’t resent it at all! In fact, I enjoy it. However, there are boundaries in my mind about not being used, reciprocal referring relationships, and when enough is enough. I appreciate fans out there singing my praises and sharing my work with others. I don’t appreciate someone feeling entitled to my brain or taking it for granted or, worse yet, stealing it and claiming my work as their own.
There! I’ve rambled. I hope others will drop in to add their thoughts, too.
I love that phrase “Clients don’t buy your time, they buy value.” I love it when a phrase leaves people thinking and contains so much truth.
:)Yes, I know from personal experience that for many of us it is difficult to articulate and quantify the value that we bring to our clients. Yet, that is exactly what we must do to market our services effectively. Currently putting together ideas on how to help therapists do better at talking about what they do and why it matters so . . . if any of you guys have ideas / thoughts about how I can make that easier for you, feel free to share with me back channel at Tamara@TamaraSuttle.com.
Thanks for this post. This topic is very timely for me as I have been invited to do a talk at a hospital. They’ve offered to pay me, and I have no idea what to charge. I’ve typically given talks in my role as part of my role as faculty within my university system, or to small nonprofit groups (ie, new moms groups) who don’t have a speakers budget. Thank you!
Jen! It’s so good to have your voice here! Congrats on the invitation and how fun! You might consider packaging related to this “talk.” You may want to consider offering them different tiers of access to information – low / medium / high – and price accordingly. Hope you’ll drop back in to let us know more about where we might hear you speak and what you decided to do with your fees, too!
Blessings to you on your journey!
What a great topic! I can second almost everything that Lyndsey mentioned as something I have thought of or grappled with before. I struggle a lot with consulting (or licensure supervision, more accurately) fees, and it’s even more confusing when talking about a colleague or acquaintance. One thing that helped me was to think about the amount of hours that my LPC supervisor dedicated to me and how many questions he was willing to answer in between sessions. In addition to working on client-related questions and concerns, he also put a lot of time into my professional development, and I’m a better counselor and person because of it. I don’t regret a cent.
Lauren, I’m with you when it comes to paying it forward. I was the recipient of fabulous clinical mentoring and supervision over the last 30 years and I’m more than happy to pass that on to others who are equally motivated to learn and grow in the profession. I really do believe that it’s the right thing to do.
However, having said that, I am also sensitive to the feminization of the field and recognize that the perceived value of mental health services has declined over the last 50 years. Likewise, those of us in the helping professions – mostly women – have often bought into that perception of value and have spent way too many hours, days, weeks, months, and even years minimizing the value of our work. I say all of that because I don’t want to support that thinking and that behavior that continues to minimize and devalue the life-changing / world-changing work that we do.
In a healthy private practice there is ample space for generosity and mentoring as well as a balanced budget and a comfortable profit, too. And, if there is not all of that in a therapist’s business, then there’s something missing . . . something that needs to be learned . . . and something that needs to change because it’s all doable and deserved . . . by the client and by each of us.
Tamara – You bring to the table interesting and timely topics. I have been invited to present at a local university on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy as an expert. I found the negotiation process a little un-nerving. So much like dickering over the price of a new car. I want to do the presentation and I want to make money.
I got the deal and met their budget as well as my financial needs for my time. I believe it was the “value added” that helped. The “value added” part of the deal came from a brainstorming session with a colleague. I offered additional email consultation after the workshop for a limited time period. It supports the learners and keeps me in their loop. It is a marketing gem for me.
I would love to hear what others offer as a “Value Added” to their presentation and consulting relationships.
I read a lot of blogs and the CreativePro.com says this:
“Nothing so determines the outcome of a negotiation as who makes the opening bid.
Bold Moves
In most cases, setting your price is to your advantage. A well-prepared, confident opening demand sends the message that you’ve done your homework and makes it clear you’re a professional who knows how to play the business game.”
🙂 Congrats to you, Brenda! And, thanks for joining and expanding this conversation. Added value can be in the form of additional products (like a book or white paper), perks (like chotsky, tool, time-limited discount, or freebie), or services (as you are providing in the form of email consultation). And, for knowledge experts who offer consulting services, that added value can be actual access to that professional!
Who else among us can provide examples of “value added” to a presentation or consulting gig?
Tamara, You have certainly hit the nail on the head here for me. I definitely want to give back to the counseling community, and that’s one of the reasons that I’ll likely charge less than others that I have talked to, but I also recognize that if I’m going to put at least 2 and probably closer to 3 hours a week into a licensure supervisee, I don’t think it’s unfair to ask for some compensation for that. I think that’s a happy medium between giving back and a comfortable profit.
When you said here that really struck me, though, was your discussion of not minimizing the value of our work. While I understand that I do the best I can every day with each of my clients I struggle with wanting to do more on a larger scale. I’m not really even sure how to better articulate it (other than the fact that I know that I do not want to go into counselor education (meaning that I don’t want to teach classes).
Brenda, Remember that the presentation itself is a marketing tool. I have gone to a couple of CEU presentations around here that really resonated with me, and if those presenters are back in this area on days that I can be there, I’ll be there regardless of the subject.
Lauren, in my opinion, spending 2-3 hours / week with a supervisee should equate to 2-3 hours of your clinical fee:). Don’t even think of feeling badly about asking for appropriate compensation. (And, don’t forget the significant liability that you are incurring as well.) Here’s a blog post I wrote a while back that talks about this very issue – Clinical Supervision and ‘Money Gouging’.
I know that when I was a supervisee and when most of my peers were supervisees, I and they were STUNNED at the fees that were charged for clinical supervision – mostly because (1) no one had addressed it in graduate school and (2) we had no idea of the work and the risk actually involved in providing clinical supervision. Your supervisees and potential supervisees aren’t going to be significantly different than we were. Your job with your supervisees (as well as your clients) is to articulate the value they will get by engaging your services. Your supervisees deserve competent and thorough clinical supervision and you deserve a reasonable fee for providing it.
I’m curious about your “struggle with wanting to do more on a larger scale.” What’s that about? And, if I can help you take your life’s work to the next level, email me, Lauren, and I’ll be happy to talk to you about how to do just that!
Tamara, Thanks for that link. I had read that post before, but I hadn’t bookmarked it – I have now. I, too, was surprised at the cost of supervision, but I also know that I really got a lot out of it, so it was quite worth it. I’m also finding that it’s easier to consider a supervisory relationship with somebody who I already know because I already have some idea of their character and their counseling skills. I’m not talking about somebody who I’m very close friends with, but with colleagues with whom I have discussed clients or counselor self-care strategies. One thing I need to consider in the future before doing supervision with somebody I don’t know is a meeting or two to gauge their general character or basic counseling skills and ethics. Believe it or not, there is a lot of room for interpretation and ethics, and I have heard some things that make me shiver.
Lauren, that’s exactly what I do – arrange a meeting with the potential supervisee for them to interview me and for me to interview them. If we agree that we are a good “fit,” then we can create a supervision plan for our work together.
I’m really enjoying this discussion. I started offering consulting and presentation services two years ago. Prior to setting my fees I did some shopping around to see what other professionals in my specialty area of play therapy were charging. I then felt confident that my fees were comparable to what others were charging and reflective of the value of what I could bring to the table. I’ve recently begun offering supervision services and have found people are not hesitant to pay my fee as they’ve seen me present and know the value of my services.
Here’s how I add value to my presentations: Once a year, on the anniversary of my play therapy training center, I give play therapists an opportunity to enter a drawing and win one of two free trainings. When I present trainings at my center attendees always receive a small gift bag that contains items related to the play therapy training topic. I also provide snacks and good quality chocolate. 🙂
Pam! I haven’t heard from you in a while! Welcome back! Hey I so appreciate you sharing your anniversary drawing! I’m going to do that! It’s such a lovely way to say “thank you” to your fans and also a great way to increase your mailing list, too! (Stay tuned, gang! More to come!)
I also provide yummy treats and try to send attendees away with small gift bags and tokens. Those tangibles go a long way toward psychologically confirming that attendees get something of value. I know it may not seem logical because we are out there helping clients save their marriages, save the lives of their children, etc. However, When you sell time for a living i.e. not a physical product, it’s important to find ways to show evidence of clients / attendees getting something of value for their time and money.
Hi Pam:
I just got approached to put together a psycho-education presentation on Anxiety and what happens in the Brain– so this isnot the normal presentation on what is anxiety or the diff between it and stress. I have no idea what to charge. Like I think Tamara said they don’t teach this in Grad school. What I do not want to do is sell myself short because they will continue to use it for this particular EAP company when asked for such presentation. Any suggestions on fee’s for presentation development? Thank you for any suggestions.
Thank you so much for all the feedback here is was greatly appreciated. I realized that I enjoy sharing information about building a practice with my fellow colleagues when it is a give and take relationship. For instance soon after I commented on this blog I met a fellow therapist for coffee. This visit was social and about building our practices. But it is a reciprocal relationship where I feel we both benefit. In these instances I don’t mind sharing my knowledge for free. But, I have found myself becoming a little frustrated when the relationship is not reciprocal. I liked how you said I could email friends and colleagues stating that I am starting a consulting side of my business. This would clue them into how the service may not be free anymore but also allow some free advice with more of a reciprocal relationship on to grow this part of my business. Interestingly enough right after posting on this blog I was asked to present to a Mommy’s group about sex after children. I find this to be a great opportunity to decide how I want to set my consulting fees to the public. As I see this as an opportunity to set a low consulting fee with the hopes for future business. I continue to look forward to your postings!
Lyndsey, you are so welcome! Reciprocity and appreciation go a long ways, don’t they?
And, the absence of them goes even further . . . . I have two colleagues who work with children. One of the has been in private practice for almost a decade with a strong referral base. The other one is a fairly new professional in private practice. When the new professional first started her private practice, she asked the more seasoned one to go to lunch where she took the opportunity to “pick her brain” about building and running a practice.
Apparently, the new professional didn’t buy the lunch, didn’t follow up with a note of appreciation, and proceeded to literally copy the seasoned professionals models for her own groups and classes, joined the same committees of community service-based groups, etc. I’m not sure but I don’t think that the senior therapist has spoken to that new professional since then. The last I spoke with her – several years after this first happened – she was still mad.
The unfortunate thing is that they are both really great people and great therapists, too. (I refer to both of them.) And, I doubt the new professional has a clue that she has a missed some amazing opportunities by failing to both reciprocate the kindness and express a bit of appreciation. But, I know that the senior therapist has traditionally been extremely generous in donating her time and resources to new professionals – including sharing materials with other therapists, passing on referrals from her surplus of clients, making key introductions in the community, etc.
And, while I don’t know if I would have been angry or resentful if I had been the senior therapist in this situation, I do know that we all have choices . . . about where and with whom we share our resources. My preference (and I’m betting yours, too) is to feel appreciated in relationships that do not feel lopsided. “. . . Give and take . . . .” That’s a great way to describe it! (And, by the way, Lyndsey – your comments here are part of how you give back . . . to me and to the rest of our online community here at Private Practice from the Inside Out:))
Tamara – this question is off topic. I am working with a couple of graduates students who have asked the question, “How much does is cost to launch a private practice on the average?” The second question, “How long before I make money?”
I realize this is different for everybody and many factors are part of the equation.
Brenda
Good morning, Brenda! I get these questions all the time, too! Let me tackle these in a post or two this month. Can’t even start these today but will get back with you when they are scheduled to go live.
🙂
Tamara – You ROCK! I knew I could count on you to host a dialogue at the table of PPIO! Thank you!
🙂
Lyndsey, I agree about the reciprocity. I’ve learned that it can happen in many different forms, whether it’s the sharing a strategy that worked well in a particular session or something more tangible. One thing that I noticed some myself is that if sharing of knowledge is not reciprocated in some form, I’m a little less open with what I will offer. I’ll still help if someone asks, but I’m less likely to openly volunteer information on an “I thought this might be interesting to you” basis.
Tamara and Brenda,
Let me know when you get the blog started on startup costs. I would be happy to share my personal experiences from a year ago. Though I found that every therapist is really different on how much it costs and the length of time to make money. I am also guessing location impacts this greatly, as far as how saturated your area may be. But I can definitely give a bit of the Twin Cities in Minnesota perspective!
Tamara, your response was also very helpful. I feel that new therapists sometimes forget the time and effort seasoned therapist put in to assist us newbies. Being a new therapist, it is good for me to continue to remember this as well 🙂
Lyndsey, thank you for being proactive about looking for ways to share your own experiences with us! I know you are modeling good things for those that come behind us!
Hi Tamara,
I have just discovered this website and am eager to read more. This is wonderful!
My question at this time is about group supervision for clinical licensure. I’ve provided some individual supervision (to people I’ve vetted), and the going rate in this area is $85/hour. I’ve been asked by a former student of mine to provide supervision for a group of 5 new therapists in her work. Some in this area charge $50 per hour per person for group supervision. That seems high to me. I know that there is still paperwork to be done on everyone, and there is the liability issue for all group members. They are new workers, but are also bringing in a good salary. What do others think and know about rates for group supervision?
Hi, Kathy, and welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out! I don’t know where you are located – and geography does affect fees a bit – but fees for clinical supervision typically correlate to what you clinical fees are. If you charge $100 / hour for individual psychotherapy, then your fees for an hour of clinical supervision will likely be the same; and, if the usual and customary fee for providing group therapy in your area is $40-60 / hour (as it is here in Colorado), then that is what one can expect to charge for clinical group supervision.
And, if there is anyone out there who is not sure what the usual and customary fee is for professional services in your area, here is a post I wrote a while back telling you how to find out.
I am in Minnesota and I agree with Tamara. Many of the supervisors here charge their hourly rate and split the cost between the group members. It averages out to be between $25 to $40 an hour per person for the group. For instance I am in a consultation group that is around $40 an hour per group member but there are only three of us in the group. Also this is a speciality group around sexual concerns. I often see speciality groups charge more. Again, as Tamara stated it all depends on your location. For instance it appears that rates might be a bit higher in Colorado than in Minnesota. So it would be best to determine what the rates look like in your community and go some where in the middle. I hope this helps!
Good morning, Lyndsey! Thanks for weighing in on this. I forgot to add that many states regulate how many therapists-in-training can be in a supervision (as opposed to consultation) group for the purpose of obtaining a license. The maximum number that I have heard allowed in most states is three. And, to clarify . . . I meant that it is most common for a supervisor to charge her usual and customary group fee per person (and not split between group members). For example, if the supervisor’s group rate is $60 / person for an hour and a half counseling group, then it is common that her supervision fee will also be $60 / person for a supervision group.
I don’t know if all other states list licensure law as Pennsylvania does, but in Pennsylvania, there is a green booklet that can be requested from the licensure board and the contents are also available online. Both are free. This booklet clearly designates the supervisors can be, how many people can be in a group, and how many of the supervision hours can be in a group. In Pennsylvania, only one of the two hours per week are permitted to be in the group format.
And if this isn’t clear, I would recommend clarification directly from the licensure board before starting the group. This process can be complicated and confusing at times.
Thanks, Lauren, for the reminder to always check with your own jurisdiction to get the final say so about licensure requirements!
Lyndsey . . . I just noticed that you don’t have a little picture of you next to your comments. You’re missing an opportunity to help people remember who you are. If you want to have a little picture of you show up in your comments, you can find out how right here. It’s really simple – I promise!
Tamara…thanks for the feedback. I didn’t even know how to that and the blog was helpful. Hopefully my picture will now come up when I comment. That is if I did it correctly!
I can SEE you, Lyndsey! SUCCESS!
Kathy . . . I just noticed that you don’t have a little picture of you next to your comments. You’re missing an opportunity to help people remember who you are. If you want to have a little picture of you show up in your comments, you can find out how right here. It’s really simple – I promise!
HI TAMARA AND EVERYONE ELSE,
I REALLY APPRECIATED ALL OF THE COMMENTS AS IT RELATES TO FEES FOR CONSULTING.
IT IS A NEW YEAR AND I BEGAN 8 YEARS AGO DOING A FORM OF CONSULTING BUT THIS
YEAR I AM GOING FULL BLAST. I AM A L.P.C. AND WANTED TO BE FAIR IN MY AMOUNT.
I LIKE THE COMMENT ABOUT FOCUSING ON THE “VALUE” OF WHATS BEING OFFERED.
IF CLIENTS FEEL VALUED AND THAT YOU REALLY PROVIDED ASSISTANCE, THEY WILL RETURN AND THAT IS ANOTHER WAY TO BUILD INCOME. PEOPLE WANT TO NOT JUST BE A
“NUMBER” BUT HAVE SERVICES THAT ARE CATERED TO THEIR CULTURE, RACE, SEX, ETC.
THAT IS CORRECT…WE DON’T WANT PEOPLE TO MISUSE US OR TAKE US FOR GRANTED BUT ONCE YOUR LIGHT SHINES BRIGHTLY…THEY WILL KNOW THEY HAVE A REAL JEWEL.
Hi, Candace! How exciting for you! I hope you’ll let us know what your consulting services focus on and what you find is working well for you. We want to learn from your experiences!
Hi Tamara,
This is a very helpful discussion! A colleague who recently started a non-profit health clinic asked me to develop a behavioral health program to add as a service line. I believe he would like me to also help with implementation as an employee and become part of their care team. Should I be performing and charging the program design project from a consultant role and then implementing the program from an employee role? How do I draw the boundary between the two roles? Thanks in advance !
Hi, Melissa! Thanks for dropping in to chat!
You are right – you can choose to function initially as a consultant and design the project; and, then transition to the clinical work or implementing the program under a different role, title, and financial arrangement.
A different option would be to have the clinic hire you into a position that compensates you for each phase of the job.
I’m not sure I understand what boundaries you think could be blurred.
In my mind, research and design work is primarily brain work and mostly solitary work; and, implementing that program would then be about hiring, staffing, running, and possibly providing the actual work with clients and staff.
Can you say more about your concerns?
I’m curious how you go about thinking through setting fees for doing professional presentations. I started out using my clinical fee as my base fee per hour for these kinds of presentations, but now I’m at the point where demand has increased enough that I need and want to charge more. How does one go about finding a “market rate” to compare for this kind of thing?
Thanks for any input you can provide to help me think this through!
Hi, Erin! Congrats to you!!!!
I do consider consulting fees to be different from fees for public speaking.
I remember when it came time for me to make this transition, too.
It was so confusing . . . and scary, too, thinking about raising those speaking fees and wondering if anyone would find my words as valuable as I hoped they would.
I’ve needed to write a blog post on this for years . . . And haven’t gotten around to doing it.
So thank you for the nudge!
The short answer is that the market rate is not what you want to consider.
I promise I will write a detailed post on this soon.
For now, you need to consider a few different things including your motivation and goal(s) for doing the presentation, all your prep time, your own experience and education related to the material presented, your own marketing and administrative efforts (and the resources invested in the presentation), the amount of time you are presenting / training, the size of the audience, the benefits that your presentation brings to the individuals in the audience, the value you bring to the group that has brought you in to present, your current and desired relationship to the group, and ultimately your costs and their budget as they relate to this presentation.
It’s a lot to consider, right?
It shouldn’t be a “market rate” that determines your speaking fee; but rather the overall value to you and to your audience that the experience presents.
If you haven’t taken the time to consider and calculate these things, take time to do that now.
In the mean time, I’ll pull together the details for a blog post on this topic so that you and other therapists can more easily set your fees for public speaking