The Basics of Clinical Supervision
Lately, I’ve found myself in a lot of conversations about clinical supervision.
If you’re getting ready to graduate from your clinical program in one of the mental health professions, it’s time to start thinking about your own clinical supervision.
Prior to obtaining your license as a professional counselor, social worker, or psychologist, you will be required to obtain 1500-4000 hours under clinical supervision.
If you are fortunate enough to work in an agency, hospital, or school, it is possible that your employer will provide clinical supervision for you on site at no expense to you.
If that’s the case, consider it a benefit of the job.
However, if following graduate school you attempt to go directly into private practice (as is the option in some states) or end up working for an employer that does not provide your clinical supervision, then you will need to find a supervisor and pay for supervision on your own.
(Look for 10 Questions You Must Ask Your Potential Supervisor next week to learn more about how to find a great supervisor.)
Supervision and Money
I’m not sure why but not one of my professors in graduate school ever thought to talk with us about those additional costs that we would incur following graduation.
So . . . let me break the news to you. . . .
One of the many reasons you may want to start out working for an agency that provides your clinical supervision is that it can be expensive if you have to pay for it on your own.
If you are paying out of pocket, you should expect to pay whatever a typical clinical hour costs in your geographic area.
I charge the UCR – usual and customary rates – for those working on the Front Range in Colorado.
My fees are $125 – $150 / hour for individual counseling and $65 / hour for group counseling.
I charge the same rates / hour for clinical supervision and you will find that most reputable supervisors charge based on their hourly clinical rate as well.
Too Expensive
If you find those rates to be objectionable, you have a right to understand why these are actually reasonable fees and that good supervisors are not simply gouging you for “easy money” (as one new graduate noted this week on a discussion list).
Here are some things to consider . . . .
- The professional standard for clinical supervision has shifted in recent years.
Your clinical supervisor is now expected (and in many cases, required) to obtain formal training in clinical supervision at her own expense.
In the State of Texas, that requirement is a minimum of 40 hours plus ongoing continuing education in the area of supervision. - Your clinical supervisor is legally and ethically responsible for each and every client that you come in contact with.
S/he is also responsible for every decision that you do / do not make and every action that you do / do not take.
That’s a LOT of additional responsibility. - Your supervisor is responsible for reading every bit of your initial client assessments, progress notes, all correspondence, and termination paperwork and providing feedback as needed.
That’s a LOT of time. - Your clinical supervisor will typically meet with you on a weekly basis for 1-2 years.
That’s additional time out of her schedule every week s/he could be using to see a client and earn her hourly fee.
During your weekly meeting with your clinical supervisor, s/he is required to essentially develop your abilities as a mental health professional.
Her roles will alternate between teacher, mentor, consultant and evaluator. - For every hour that your clinical supervisor spends with you, s/he is most likely spending another hour in preparation — completing paperwork, refining a plan to help develop you as a counselor, gathering materials, reviewing literature to meet your unique needs and interests.
That’s MORE TIME.
Your clinical supervisor remains on call for you 24 hours / day. - And, long after you have completed your hours of clinical supervision, s/he remains liable for all those decisions you made while under supervision.
Assuming you are seeing 20-30 clients / week while your supervisor is also seeing that many clients / week, her choice to supervise you, in effect, doubles her risk of being sued.
I’m sure there are other risks / costs involved in being a clinical supervisor.
If you can think of them, please share them with us here so that new graduates will have a clearer understanding of why fees are set the way they are.
And, if you are a new or soon-to-be-new graduate who is considering clinical supervision, let me know if any of this is new information for you.
Yes, this is news for me, I had no idea that supervision would cost. Thanks for this information. Brian
So glad to be of help! My graduate program was really great BUT there was so much more to learn!
I must respectfully disagree with your rates for charging supervision as price gouging. The rates you imply people pay for therapy are based in a non insurance cash payer. The rates for an insurance based patient are 50-60 dollars at the masters level. So the rates you are charging your supervised are the full price of a private payer. Have you forgotten when you were an intern an needed a break? You mean the finances to get your full rate are more important than education the next gen therapists? You are part of the problem when you expect your full rate (100)from a graduate starting out than you get paid for a 45 minute therapy session (60) from an insurance company. I don’t buy your justifications. You get 60 bucks a session from all the big insurers you don’t get 100. So if you’ll work for the insurance company for 60 why don’t you accept that pay from those just starting out. Why are my therapists across the country in outrage over the fees for APS requirements. It’s because those who are APS certified aren’t going to cut off a stream of income that pays a premium. And those that aren’t certified don’t care. I challenge every APS to charge there supervises what they get paid by BCBS 55 bucks a session.
bdplpc, thanks so much for dropping in here today. I’m always happy to share the space with different opinions.
I should have stayed with my gut feeling and went with nursing. This is bull shit! Counseling supervisors know that no one can afford $100 per week post graduation. Sinful disgusting career and sociopathic therapists. Look out losers, you’ll be sued very soon!
Hi, Briana! Thanks for joining the conversation.
I always appreciate a different point of view.
I wonder if you might be able to add some context to what you’ve written here?
Are you still in your graduate program?
Have you had work experience post-graduation?
Are you working in an agency or institution now?
I would like to understand your situation and position better.
Hi. I am currently receiving supervision from a private practice. I am only paying $50 pee week for supervision but I pay $20 per client I see. I get all of my own clients and am doing well. My supervisor probably averages close to $1000 a month from my earnings. Is this a fair deal?
Tara, thank you so much for asking this!
From the information you have shared here, I cannot tell how much time you are receiving for clinical supervision.
Here in Colorado, $50 might pay for 30 minutes or less for clinical supervision or a clinical hour with a client.
I am not sure why you would be paying to see clients . . . .
Perhaps I am just not understanding your inquiry.
Congrats to you on your marketing efforts; I am not quite sure how your supervisor’s income is relevant.
I have no idea if this is the customary rate for clinical supervision in your community.
If you can elaborate further on this, I would be happy to try and help!
BCBS pays $98.19 for the standard 55-60 minute session. I find 45 minutes is not enough time to accomplish much. Some insurance companies insist on the 45 minute session and 62 to 70 is standard for that. Private practice fees in Georgia span $100-$160 depending where you are located. My fee after 18 years of practice, with the last 10 being in private practice are $145 and I do have the freedom to slide when warrented.
From my research $100 is common practice to charge for supervision. In the late 90’s I paid $90 plus dinner afterward.
Hi, Braswell! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out!
Thank you for taking time to share this info with us!
It’s so helpful to continue adding geographic and timely specifics to this conversation.
That’s especially true for new therapists entering private practice.
I did just notice that you don’t have a little photo of you that shows up with your comments here (and on other blogs, too). They are called “gravatars.” Using a gravatar helps others get to know and trust you quicker.
Here’s a link to a quick tutorial that shows you how to set up your own gravatar http://www.allthingsprivatepractice.com/how-a-tiny-picture-of-you-can-help-drive-traffic-to-your-website-or-blog/ . (Don’t worry! It’s so easy that even I could do it and it’s absolutely FREE!)
Really , you paid for supervision 11 years before it was required as opposed to getting supervision at no cost from a supervisor at job which is what all of us did prior to this barrier to entry supervision requirement was enacted, as an LPC? I would have to applaud your dedication to learning but not your business sense, since you paid quite a bit for something that was free. I was fortunate to have awesome supervision from a multidisciplinary team that included 3 psychiatrists a social worker a Ph.D. And a nurse practioners some of which were Titans of their field. As of today not one would be allowed as a supervisor unless they were a acs. And this improves the field? This forces potential counselors to seek supervision from only those inside a narrow band as opposed to allowing multi inputs from a variety of field to grow as a counselor which is necessary to be a whole counselor. Not to mention the 15k that they would have to pay 100×50 weeksx3years on top of the 30k for a masters and 100k for the BA. The end result is we lose people to other fields and with more seeking treatment now that they have insurance and less counselors due to the requirement, well you tell me if the future looks bright for us.
Hey, Brian, where are you geographically? The reason I ask is that you said that supervisors must have the ACS credential. I know that there is a movement in the field to require additional training in supervision but wasn’t aware of any state yet mandating that credential.
Bdlpc
I am pretty much in agreement with you. The psychological helping profession has gone money crazy over the years.
Even this website is an attempt to monetize a young Therapist’s inexperience.
I appreciate you dropping in, Jon, to share a different opinion.
I am sorry to hear that you feel like this website is focused on “monetizing a young Therapist’s inexperience.”
That wasn’t and isn’t my intent; in fact, my intent was and remains to provide tons of free and practical information and inspiration to those in the field.
You will rarely find me promoting services / products for a profit; and, when I do so, I am very clear that there are many ways and places to obtain the knowledge and skills needed to build and grow a private practice.
I make no apologies for the professional services I provide and never promise “six figure incomes” and quick fix “have-a-full-practice-in-just-three-months” solutions.
Absolute great point. I am presently a LPC-S and I don’t charge no where near the prices I have been seeing in this post. I always think of myself when I was a struggling intern and I have decided I want to help the next generation of counselors not financially stress them out. I don’t want my supervisees to become bitter future counselors and eventually leave the field, or be struggling like I did. I do want them to focus on perfecting their skills and becoming the best counselors they can be and start their profession focusing on the clients needs, being able to keep a balance in their lives, and not on playing financial catch-up.
Thanks, Sharon for dropping in to share your thoughts on clinical supervision! I appreciate your heartfelt concern for the financial plight of new counselors and love your desire to help them focus and balance their lives. Those are such important aspects of surviving professionally long term, right?! And, I encourage you and anyone else out there who can and wants to charge lesser fees to do exactly that when you can! Our professional ethics actually direct us to do service work while in this profession and serving your supervises by attending to these areas is one way to do that! Thank you, Sharon for you generosity and service!
Im in northern NJ right outside of New York. NJ has a requirement you have to be supervised by an acs no one else. so they must go this route to get their license and pay close to 30 grand. Also NJ has no ratio of clinical hours to supervision so they could have 1 session a year but the gougers in this area make them come 1 time a week and pay 100 bucks
Brian, I love that New Jersey’s standard for clinical supervision is that of an Approved Clinical Supervisor (ACS)!
That’s awesome that any new therapist can be confident that the quality of supervision is really good!
I wonder if the lack of required ratio of clinical hours to supervision is because the preparation a therapist goes through to obtain the ACS credential includes an understanding of the need for consistent and thorough supervision.
I’m not in New Jersey so I could be wrong; but I’m pretty sure that the average hourly rate in New Jersey these days is higher than $100 / hour.
Regardless of the frequency, I’m thinking that those supervisors are actually providing their services at a reduced rate from that hourly average.
In my book, that’s far from “gouging.”
Thanks for dropping in to share your thoughts, Brian!
BDPLPC,
I don’t know where you get your information. I’m a mental health counselor and I charge $275 for the initial session and 225 for each additional session after that. And insurance companies will reimburse me those rates as an out of network provider. I supervise 5 mental health counselor interns and my risk is 5 times as much as if I didn’t. If you’re charging nothing to see clients, you should reevaluate how much you’re worth and how much money you’re losing by taking $55 dollars per session.
Hi, Anthony! Thanks for dropping into chat! I appreciate you sharing what your own fees are for your professional services. It’s always helpful for therapists who are new to private practice to learn what their peers are charging. I do know that fees vary a lot based on economic differences in different locations.
I get my fees from the fee schedules that come from the major insurances. If you like look it up yourself. The average is 55 a session for an LPC. What your charging and doing is the unsustainable out of network model and if it works for you great but your fees are more than a psychiatrist charges for a session so you are charging more than an MD. With a MA and you think that’s serving your clients. I would never raise or charge that much. It doesn’t have the patient in mind it has the bottom line in mind. You also have to consider the finances of a supervised who has 30 g in student loans and is probably working 2jobs. Thanks for adding do much to the helping profession.
Hi, Brian! Welcome back! I can appreciate that you would never raise your fees or charge that much for your services. However, I do have both my bills and livelihood as well as my client’s needs in mind as I set and adjust my fees. I do know that my fees here in Colorado are well within the parameters of “usual and customary fees” for this particular geographic area. But, if I were in Mississippi or California or somewhere in the Northeast part of the USA, my fees might be radically different. Perhaps you’re not comparing apples to apples?
I’m sorry, but this is ridiculous reasoning. Insurance reimbursement rates are not enough in my area for me to earn a decent standard of living. If I can’t pay my own bills, and I have that worry on my mind, in what way is that at all beneficial to my clients? I charge what some would think to be a very high rate – $150 as an MA – but PhDs in my area charge $300. And no, I’m not in the middle of NYC or anything like that, I’m actually in a rural, but affluent town. My higher rates also allow me to take on some clients that I otherwise wouldn’t be able to see at a sliding scale rate. This idea that we have to suffer as much as our clients suffer in order to be a good provider is really detrimental to our profession and leads to devaluing the work that we do. People will pay a massage therapist $150 an hour but balk at paying that for a mental health provider — what kind of crazy logic is that? I really bristle at the idea that I need to be struggling to pay my bills as some kind of altruistic service to my clients — it just doesn’t make any sense.
Thank you Anthony for being the voice of reason. What you wrote is literally my own experience as well in terms of reimbursement. Additionally, asking to be reimbursed for valuable supervision isn’t price gauging, it’s an investment, liability, responsiblity, and time that could be on the clock with paying clients. Of course I would charge the same rate with 100 being the low end at this point. This is a helping profession and yet I’m still a single parent, in a career, needing to make my own professional and financial goals happen. There is such a thing as balance, even in the helping professions. I do not subscribe to this idea that somehow we are expected to live like monks and we owe it to the next generation.
I paid an average of 1500 a month to complete supervision for internship and parciticum. I am now a private practice sole provider LPC and have been for several years. If I can see a client for more money than an intern, I have no guilt regarding requirements for compensation. I was never told about the extra expense upon graduation and it came as a surprise. I feel that the colleges and universities are at fault for this issue and forcing interns to utilize government facilities who are able to bill under their own umbrella thus discouraging interns to seek private practice as an alternative. I also feel that since I am putting up the malpractice, the time, the responsibility and the effort to supervise interns that i should be compensated at least what I would make if I were to see the client myself. Do you really think someone is going to sue an intern with student malpractice when a supervisor is responsible. Wake up, this profession is not easy to get or is it easy to do.
Hi, Bonnie!
Thanks for joining the conversation.
I, too, was caught off guard when it came to supervision.
No one in my graduate program bothered to let us know that we would need to pay for our own clinical supervision if we had any intention of getting licensed.
And, like you, I agree that this should be something that every training program takes responsibility for telling students early in their program and then reiterating throughout their training.
But, since that apparently only happens randomly, I think it’s important that we keep the conversation alive so that those coming behind us can learn the truth.
I will admit that you having to pay an average of $1500/month for supervision during your internship and practicum shocks me.
And, I’m glad to hear that you recognize the value that you now have to offer interns who work under you.
Too many therapists enter the field with their own money myths that set them up to fail in this field.
The work that we do is honorable and important.
It is also life altering.
And, for those reasons and many more, mental health professionals deserve to earn a fair wage for the work that they do.
I have to disagree. I had to commit to an agency for several years in order for them to pay for supervision or else pay of out pocket. And to speak on your stance on insurance payout, you’re assuming this therapist accepts insurance…
In my area, most clinicians are private pay, unfortunately, because insurance companies severely underpay. Ethically, you consider your area, and you charge what you would charge a client.
Insurance companies have their rate, but most clients still have to pay a co-pay…if the co-pay is 50 and the insurance company pays 50, you get your rate, if it’s $100.
Most importantly, potential supervisees could simply choose not to be supervised by someone who charges a fee they can’t afford!
Thank you, Danni, for sharing your position here. I appreciate the diversity of opinions.
As an Operations Manager for a large, private outpatient mental health practice that accepts both self pay and insurance paying clients, as well as operate a full education and supervision program for interns, externs, and associate level licensed clinicians…we receive $84.60 from every BCBS client, $98.42 from United Healthcare, $100.04 from Caresource (CMO Medicaid), and $92.15-$102.53 from PeachState, Ambetter, and Amerigroup (additional CMO Medicaid plans). The only insurance companies that pay as low as $55 per session include Aetna, Humana, Cigna, and Tricare. With all commercial plans, Aetna, Cigna, Humana, Tricare, BCBS, and United Healthcare, almost 90% of our clients also incur a copay or coinsurance amount ranging from $20-$60 per session (above and beyond what their insurance plan pays).
I understand the financial struggles newly graduated clinicians incur. Our organization offers free supervision and education to our internal staff, but only with a signed employee contract and an ROI Agreement because so many of the newly graduated clinicians we help along the way have been known to obtain other employment after we have given away thousands of dollars in clinical and professional services to help them obtain licensure. Ms. Suttle is also correct about the increase in liability and the increased workload and responsibility placed on the Clinical Supervisor. I understand your frustration and agree that the schools should notify their students of the additional expense(s) that are required for years post graduation. However, until you’ve sat in the role of a clinical supervisor and experienced it for yourself, it is unfair to make judgements regarding compensation for their time, efforts, and energy it takes to assist new clinicians to full licensure.
Hi, Christy!
Thank you for dropping in and sharing your company’s experiences here.
Your numbers do not surprise me at all.
However, I do want to add that while you are referencing the contracts that your large outpatient facility receives, that will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction AND also from contract to contract within any given jurisdiction.
Large groups and agencies often receive better reimbursement of fees than those who are in smaller or solo practices.
Nevertheless, there is liability and work for all clinical supervisor and the businesses they work in as well.
I appreciate your voice here at Private Practice from the Inside Out and hope you will be back often to chat!
I’m not sure where you practice, but insurers in my area (midwest) reimburse as high as $155/hr (BCBS), so Tamara’s rates would be completely usual and customary. It is also important to consider that in some areas, it is considered illegal to charge a different rate for a cash client vs an insured client, which can be frustrating. Of course, Tamara discusses the option of adding a sliding fee scale for clients in a different post, so I suppose supervisors could also consider that policy for new counselors needing supervision. I was able to get supervision by providing counseling services to a clinic that wanted to treat uninsured clients, but didn’t want to take that hit to their caseloads. So I was paid a nominal fee for providing counseling services, but my supervision was included. It was a tight two years, but it can be done.
I charge the rate that I typically get reimbursed from insurance companies and the going rate for supervision in my state. As the writer mentioned, It is a higher risk for a lawsuit and a lot of extra time on my end. If a graduate is concerned about the cost, they will learn a lot from an agency setting where supervision is free. I started out at an agency and learned a lot.
“If a graduate is concerned about the cost, they will learn a lot from an agency setting where supervision is free. I started out at an agency and learned a lot.” Well said, Llgee and that graduate will get excellent experience – about the business and the clinical end, too in mental health!
Hello,
I received my Doctorate in Clinical Social Work in May 2019. I have had no success in attempts to secure documentation for my clinical supervision from previous supervisors. They do not respond to requests for me, they have retired/unable to locate, or they are expired/deceased.
In addition, I have had at least 2-3 supervisors since receiving my MSW in 2003. Please inform me if you are able to assist me with my LCSW supervision hours. I have been informed that the requirement with the. DSW degree is 2000 hours.
Thank you for your time!
Gwendolyn Marshall MSW MLS DSW
Hi, Gwendolyn! Thanks for dropping in!
This must be so frustrating for you to have done so much work and now to not have all your work recognized by the licensing board!
I so appreciate you sharing your predicament here so that others can be forewarned.
I, too, lost touch with supervisors along the way and had failed to obtain my documentation in a timely manner.
It literally cost me the opportunity to gain an additional credential or two along the way.
I’m sorry to say that I cannot help you with your supervision requirement primarily I am not a Social Worker.
In my experience, licensing boards for Social Workers do not recognize supervision under any other discipline.
And, because you have not obtained documentation of your clinical supervision and now have lost the ability to have it documented by the original supervising professionals, it is entirely possible that you may have to undergo additional clinical supervision in order to satisfy the conditions of your licensing board
I’m so sorry to have to say that – and I truly hope I am wrong.
Either way, I hope you’ll come back to let us know how you end up dealing with this issue.
Best wishes!
I ran into this issue when I wanted to obtain licensure in a new state. My original supervisor had passed away the year after I was initially licensed so 12 years later when I was applying for licensure in another state it was tough. Luckily I had been quite diligent in documenting our supervision and had signed/dated spreadsheets of our supervision hours and had saved those electronically. The new state was able to verify the information on my copies, with the documentation we had submitted for my original license in the prior state and they were willing to license me. That is another really important piece of supervision, as supervisor’s may be called upon decades later to verify hours if their supervisee is seeking licensure in another jurisdiction. When needing to confirm my university internship hours, I found out the hard way my university had a policy of only saving records for 7 years and the supervisor from that time was now retired and didn’t have access to the records which were stored at the university. Once again, I fortunately had diligently documented my hours myself, had saved signed copies and was able to get the new dept head to sign off on my hours. It can be a really tough situation when you have to go back and get signatures from years earlier. It will be really awesome when we can have a counseling compact and licenses from one state will be recognized by all states.
Hi, Cynthia! I have no idea why I am only now seeing this comment today.
So sorry for the delay! But wanted to say “Kudos to you for taking care of you along the way!” WOW!
That’s a lot to have dealt with! So glad you survived!
And, yes to that much needed counseling compact!
So happy the American Counseling Association is continuing to push that agenda!
And, as always, it’s lovely to have your voice back in here!
I would like to point out that the services you are outlining should be provided by the supervisor do not necessarily appear to be followed by all supervisors (and may not be required in all states). While my personal experience with post-graduate supervision has been great (partially because I have a great person as my supervisor and partially because Michigan has set requirements for training etc. of the supervisor), it appears that supervision usually is limited to assuming legal and ethical responsibility for the clients and meeting with the supervisee on a semi-frequent basis. When that is the case, it truly is a matter of making easy money, especially with the prices that are charged.
It currently appears that there is a lack of qualified supervisors available, at least in some areas of the country, which will perpetuate these practices – and frequently, graduates are held hostage by the need to obtain paperwork documenting supervision rather than actually get supervision. That is a problem.
Personally, I don’t believe graduates would have too many objections to paying for the quality of supervision you are outlining above – I just question the extent of it actually happening that way.
Hi, Tore! Thanks for joining in the conversation. I think what you are describing as less-than-ideal supervision falls into the category of administrative supervision (which is very different from clinical supervision). I’ve got a post coming out later this month addressing this issue so I hope you’ll check back in as we continue the dialogue.
The bottom line for me is this . . . if a therapist is pushing just to get the supervised hours completed and is not getting quality clinical supervision, she’ll pay for it down the road. She’ll make mistakes, struggle with what to do, may harm her clients (with the best of intentions), and may find that she ends up being sued.
You sound as if you’ve been out of school for a little while and in the work force now. I really appreciate that you are continuing to voice your concern for the development of other counselors that come after you. Looking forward to hearing from you again.
Hi, I am a post masters in counseling graduate with 1500 more hours to obtain before applying for my L.C.P.C. license. I was told by my graduate professors that a supervisor who is asking for money for those in the field seeking supervision, is not ethical. The rationale given is that it is the supervisors duty to the field to volunteer and mentor professionals entering our field.
Hi, Tore! Welcome back!
You were told that by multiple professors?
That’s so interesting!
Can you say more about the context in which you were told that – the location, the school, the class, perhaps?
Maybe the specific discipline they were speaking from?
Or, perhaps what Code of Ethics they might have been referencing?
I can certainly understand how some clinicians would want this to be true but for clinicians who are actually practicing in the field of counseling, clinical supervision is considered an advanced area of specialty and service.
It is not required or expected from most counselors.
And, offering clinical supervision for a fee is not discouraged or prohibited by the American Counseling Association’s Code of Ethics.
Perhaps some of the counselor educators among us can speak to this comment?
In any case, Tore, I hope you’ll drop back in to share more details!
Hello–Counselor Educator (also practitioner and supervisor) here! Tamera–your response was spot on. While counselors are expected to engage in pro bono work for the good of the profession, that does not extend to free supervision services. Counselors can and should charge for the services they provide. While it may be expensive for the Resident, the clinician has their own practice costs, including liability, that need to be covered and it is expected that we charge in order to pay for those fees (e.g., time, paperwork, office space, insurance, CEs, 24/7 accessibility). BTW–this was a great post and I’ll be sharing it with my internship students.
Hi, Aimee! Thanks so much for weighing in on this topic and for sharing it with your students!
I think much of the outrage expressed by so many counselors-in-training is that they were not aware of this aspect until they were unexpectedly confronted with it.
It’s all well and good to say “You should investigate and research potential careers before you actually pursue one.”
However, we don’t know what we don’t know.
True confession here – I didn’t even know I needed a license to practice until I was well into my graduate program!
Shame on me for not knowing . . . but moreso shame on my graduate program for not introducing me to that fact in my very first course.
I do think that graduate programs in counseling are doing a much better job now than in 1981 in preparing students for their post-graduate careers – especially those programs that are CACREP approved.
But for those student and new grads who didn’t get heads up about the need and costs of post-grad supervision and licensing . . . it can be jarring and potential barriers to realizing their career goals.
I appreciate the work that you do – especially that you are informing your students and helping them prepare for the investments now.
Thanks for dropping in, Aimee!
I hope you’ll be back often to chat!
Hi,
While I respect your description of what YOU do as a supervisor, I do not see that at all in Hawaii. First off, there are NO requirements for supervisors, not even length of time in practice, let alone training. There is also no allowance for pre license grads going into private practice (unless they can find all cash clients who are willing to pay for counseling from someone who is not allowed to say she is a mental health counselor). Many sites do not provide supervision so we are forced to pay for it. The additional liability supervisors take on in this case is minimized by the fact that the sites will most likely be sued rather than the supervisor of the counselor who doesn’t even work there. From what I have seen, no supervisor is offering to read all our notes or spend a bunch of extra time on us – just charging for the hour or more we spend in group or individual supervision and that’s it. And being available 24/7? – in your dreams! I’m not sure what it is like in other States but I think your description may be very idealized compared to what many (most?) of us grads are really dealing with. For perspective from the other side – how would you like to be forced to pay $250 – $500 a month out of a salary of $30K – 40K (going rate for unlicensed counselors at agencies around here). That is, if you are lucky enough to even find a job as the State of Hawaii continues to decimate mental health services with extreme budget cuts. Many of us work part time or on contract with no benefits and STILL have to pay these rates for supervision. Luckily, we have a sympathetic professor who may get a supervision class going as a continuing ed program – otherwise we might be forced to take on another job just to pay for supervision! I’m sorry but i do fee gouged – your comments have not convinced me as they are so very far away from my own experience.
Hi, Shari! Thanks for joining the conversation here. It sounds as if you are totally frustrated and I don’t blame you! Having less than adequate clinical supervision and paying good money for it would certainly sour my outlook on the profession. I want to offer you some steps to take that may help you improve your own and others’ situations. I’ll try to get a post out next week that does that.
However, in the mean time, if you are seriously looking for a better solution for your clinical supervision, I would be happy to post on this blog a job description and call for competent clinical supervisors in Hawaii if you can draft it and send it to me. Our online community here is mushrooming quickly and we can use this to find resources that you, as an individual counselor, may not.
Let me know what you think about my offer and check back in next week to see a related post.
It seems to me that there is an ongoing racket collecting fee’s from social workers. The supervision requirement is a major barrier to incoming professionals and students. After 50K on a master’s degree in social work I now need to pay $100 an hour for supervision? Even after you pay the hundreds for a lame license exam that admittedly does not test the body of knowledge learned in school, the student is again fleeced for ongoing “continuing education” hours that if he fails to continue to pay out for every year then his license lapses and pays even more fees. The whole system for becoming a therapist is dysfunctional. I completely agree with Shari. Social workers are getting payed 40k with a license! How are we supposed to pay these crushing fees and meet these requirements?! I have worked in Utah, Colorado and Nevada and i can tell you first hand what a complete waste of time most of the “continuing education” classes are. They are a requirements that simply collect fees and check off a prerequisite box. It is amazing how many people block you from doing what you already know how to do…and how many of them are social workers! I have been working in the field for over seven years and still cant get my license because i cant find supervision that qualifies. Companies either hire Licensed social workers (lcsw) or “mental health counselors” that they do not offer supervision and pay 11-14 dollars an hour. It leaves me feeling like you are either in the club or barred from entry. If I had known that even after I got a masters degree there would be nothing but blockade after blockade to actually being allowed to work, I never would have gone to grad school.
Hi, Donald! Thanks so much for dropping in to chat! Wow! You’ve really had a rough time! If I’m reading this right, you are looking for clinical supervision by a licensed social worker? On second thought, perhaps you are looking for employment? Donald, I’m happy to help you network to find what you are looking for if you can let me know exactly what that is and where you are willing to go for it.
I’m sure that there is a racket out there somewhere for social workers and other mental health professionals. However, what I have found is that there are gaps in communication between the graduate programs and students, between potential supervisors and professionals in training, and between professional development opportunities and the professionals out there looking for those opportunities. Building a network of professionals and professional resources is critical to survival as a mental health professional for just these reasons. Those who remain as silos can’t survive (much less thrive) in mental health.
By the way, Donald, I wasn’t impressed with most of the continuing education opportunities that I found when I moved to Colorado, either. Those states that do not require continuing education (yes, they did / do exist) for mental health professionals are not likely to draw high caliber professional development / training. Fortunately, Colorado finally enacted requirements for professional development and are phasing them in even as we sit here! You may have to be a bit creative to get the ongoing training that we all need to build our skills and grow our competence as mental health professionals. You may want to consider putting your own workshops together and inviting more experienced therapists to present, crossing your state lines to attend trainings that are higher caliber, or even seeking distance courses to keep you sharp.
Quality clinical supervision is worth pursuing. Your learning curve under the right supervisor can be greater than everything you learned in graduate school and have direct application to the work you will do with clients. If that has not been your experience, . . . keep looking for the right supervisor. They are out there and worth every one of those $100 / hour fees.
Again, Donald, if I can help you make the right connection, feel free to drop back in and let me know.
Hi Tamara,
First, thanks for the information on why the fees are charged as they are. When broken down like that, it makes more sense and is easier to stomach some of the rates. Still for the most part, I agree with Donald’s comments posted above.
At some point in time, society is going to have to recognize the value of the mental health service provider community, but until that does happen and these professionals are paid a decent salary, it’s almost not worth the effort to try and enter the field.
I am currently in grad school and am nearing the end of my program. While I have learned so much about this area, I am seriously considering changing my major to a Human Services degree, primarily because I do not currently have the funds to pay for the supervision. In Florida, there is a requirement of 100 supervised hours/1,500 required hours of post-grad supervised hours, (see requirements below) and even at $100/supervised hour, for 100 hours, that’s an additional $10,000 that has to be paid over a period of 2 years on a salary that is not going to support that type of payment. And of course, let’s not forget about the already accrued student loans that will also be due, and the government that has first position on your income when making sure you repay them.
I’m just saying, this system of licensing needs to be reformed. If nothing else than, requiring this part of the “training” be included in the college curriculum so that potential counselors can receive financial aid for this expense, or by lobbying Congress to make this expense reimburseable by the federal government to supervisors/agencies who provide this service. Without some form of revamp, there will truly be a shortage of therapists available to deal with a growing market of persons requiring mental health services.
Two (2) years of post-master’s supervised experience under the supervision of licensed
mental health counselor or the equivalent (64B4-31.007 F.A.C.) who is qualified as
determined by the Board.** The supervision experience must have consisted of at least
1,500 hours providing psychotherapy face to face with clients for the profession for
which licensure is sought, and shall be accrued in no less than 100 weeks. At least 100
hours of supervision per 1,500 hours of psychotherapy face to face with clients provided
by the intern; At least one (1) hour of supervision every two (2) weeks; at least one (1)
hour of supervision per fifteen (15) hours of psychotherapy, with a minimum of one (1)
hour of supervision every two (2) weeks. If the applicant obtained group supervision,
each hour of group supervision must alternate with an hour of individual supervision.
Individual supervision is defined as one supervisor supervising no more than two (2)
interns and group supervision is defined as one supervisor supervising more than two
(2) but a maximum of six (6) interns in the group.
Hi, Janet! Thank you so much for taking time to write such a thoughtful response. You make several good points . . . . I’m attending a conference this week that is always focused on the intersections of multiple identities that each of us and each of our clients bring to the clinical hour . . . and the ongoing balancing act of being one who is at times oppressed and one who is at times the oppressor . . . and the power dynamics that are always at play in our work. Money . . . how we get paid . . . what we get paid . . . who pays . . . who slides . . . is often the mask that gets focused on when the real issue – the core issue – is often one of power and control. And, what I know is that when we fail to see / name / address the core issue . . . and focus instead on the mask . . . nothing really changes, does it?
You are also talking about feeling like your choices are limited and that you have very little control over these things. I spoke to a gal at this conference who will owe $275, 000 from educational loans by the time she graduates. That’s frightening to say the least.And, I don’t know about you but I do know that when I feel out of control, I look for ways to control . . . my feelings, my body, my mind, my choices, etc. Choosing to leave the field of mental health is definitely one way to regain your sense of control. Of course, there may be other ways to regain that sense of control . . . or maybe not. For example, I chose to get “free” supervision by working for agencies and institutions that would provide it as a “perk” for their employees.
I would welcome some reform related to licensing laws, Janet, and think your idea of rolling that in to the curriculum in an intriguing one! While payment for your clinical supervision is certainly tax deductibe, that does not take away the fact thatgraduate school as it is currently set up really does perpetuate the myth of meritocracy and institutionalized oppression and I can’t be 100% comfortable with that. Getting a good education much less an advanced degree is for the privileged in the US – not for the average.
And, the criteria for supervision that you and indicating the State of Florida requires is really interesting, too! This varies considerably from state to state but I must say that I can’t believe they have stipulated such tiny details.
Hey I have to run but thank you again for sharing your thoughts!
At the time I graduated with my MA in mental health counseling in Iowa, we were also faced with this “gap period”, where we couldn’t be reimbursed under insurance so it was difficult to get supervision, and even more so to pay for it. Ultimately it required counselors joining together and with a big push from the state counseling association they were able to set up a temporary status licensure and get insurance companies to reimburse for services provided under those new counselors who were completing their post graduate supervision. I would suggest connecting with your state and national associations and seeing what suggestions they might have or even ways you could help to improve legislation so there is not such a big gap between licensure requirements and the reality of completing supervision hours, especially in states where insurers won’t reimburse for unlicensed or temp licensed new professionals.
I love that you mention this!
You gals found a way to advocate and change the system a bit!
When all else fails, find a third way! Brilliant.
Thank you for sharing your story; you’ll likely never know how many other therapists are inspired by this to take a step in a slightly different direction in order to get their needs and those of their clients met!
Say Donald, I’m curious. Where did to go for studies in MSW ?
janet, you have a great take on this situation. i have a supervisor who cost 300/month. Ijust started at an agency that (of course, falling in line with greed and status quo) does not pay supervision fees (unyil i take my clients elsewhere and they scramble to keep me. why do we need pimps (agencies)? the amount of heartache we endure to enter this profession is on a level approaching masochism. our professors and schools dont care. they just want tuition. if they did care, then we would have been aware of this broken system as undergraduates. i have never seen so many intelligent people get conned on such a grand scale. i find myself putting in resumes for my other skills in an attempt to get off food stamps and take care of my family, because the profession i dreamed of getting into is just not able to provide a self sufficient lifestyle for my family. im getting to where id rather be a fabrication welder or go to afghanistan as a security contractor, because this profession is overregulated and the poor bastards doing the grunt work are always left with their families starving (unless they were independently wealthy or have a breadwinner spouse).
Mr. Burnout, thank you for reading my blog and taking time to share your thoughts. I debated about whether or not to “approve” your comment because you didn’t honestly identify yourself. That always gives me pause to wonder what’s up with that. However, you bring a different perspective to this discussion and I do appreciate that.
I wonder how many hours of supervision you get for that $300 and if it is for clinical supervision or administrative?
If you are feeling like the agency / field you are in is masochistic or that you are not able to take care of yourself and your family, then good for you for looking elsewhere! I don’t blame you at all! It’s not a field for everyone and you are fortunate to have some other options.
I would like to note that not all professors and not all graduate schools are the same. I attended the University of North Texas counseling program and it really was exemplary. I had to work my butt off, yes, but it was invaluable training to me and, I believe, my colleagues, too. In the state of Colorado, I believe that the mental health field is woefully under-regulated thus leaving the general public at greater risk for being duped or even abused.
Mr. Burnout, I hope you will drop back in to continue the dialogue. You bring up an important issues to be explored both by students of mental health and issues to be considered and reconsidered by those of us already in the field.
And ethical practitioner would not charge full or normal counseling rates for trainees.
Hi, Aaron! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out! Can you say more about your position on this? I’m wondering if there is something that I have missed? If so, I’m happy to learn from you!
It’s really not that hard to understand.
In California it is against Labor law to charge a supervision fee.
In a private practice setting an Intern must be a W2 employee, unless they are a volunteer. In both cases the supervisor can not charge a fee to provide clinical Supervision.
In an agency setting an MFT Trainee (someone still in the process of obtaining their degree), can be charged a training fee.
In that same agency setting neither an MFT Trainee or MFT Intern can be charged for Supervision.
I strongly suggest that all potential Supervisors check not only the the Board that oversees the licensing regulations, also how their state labor laws come in to play.
Oscar, thank you so much for sharing this info and underscoring the need for every supervisor and every supervisee to be familiar with their licensing board’s policies and rules and the laws of their own jurisdiction! I appreciate you taking time to speak to California’s standards of practice!
HI….I am so curious where you learned that it is illegal to charge for supervision in CA. I know of numerous people that charge for weekly supervision and the NASW and BBS are both well aware of this as I have talked to them. Would love a link or info related to this topic. This is a great blog by the way….Thanks Tamara!
I will have to put my picture up but I am jumping into a supervision…..:)
I earned a Masters Degree in Mental Health Counseling (approx. spend 40,000 dollars out of my own pocket). I’m having trouble finding supervision to obtain the additional hours I need to get licensed without feeling “gouged”. After returning from a deployment in Afghanistan, I found that in order to obtain 3,000 additional hours for licensure, I have to pay $100.00 per hour for supervision. So it will cost me and additional $300,00 to obtain my license. If I decide to go that route, I would never make up the amount I spent on my education in a lifetime not to mention on a Counselor’s salary. Does this make any sense at all? We are short mental health counselors however, we are keeping those in the “helping” profession from helping those in need. It takes a special person to want to help and we are taking this opportunity away from the “helpers” and those who need help. I have the experience necessary to help War Veterans and their families. I am disappointed that I will never have the chance to help as a counselor.
I just want to add. Shame on those “helpers” who would charge $100/hour to supervise an up and coming Counselor….though it is “legal” I can’t believe that someone can sleep at night knowing that this is simply unreasonable.
I understand, Nat. I felt that way, too, when I bolted out of school and went in pursuit of my license.
I had no idea . . . (on so many levels) what getting licensed (first in Texas and then re-licensed in Colorado) would require. And, as I went through supervision, I had no idea . . . what type of training was necessary to provide excellent supervision or what my supervision was actually costing my clinical supervisors . . . . Nor did I understand the increased liability that my supervisor was taking on by supervising me. I had no idea . . . .
But now I know . . . . I’ve worked with way too many therapists-in-training either as colleagues or under my supervision to hold onto that belief any more. I’ve supervised therapists who sought “reparative” supervision for not learning what they should have learned; I’ve seen other “therapists” who have had no clinical supervision (yes, that’s legally allowed here in Colorado) and cleaned up their messes with clients.
One of the characteristics of a “profession” throughout history has been a period of professional mentorship and tutelage. It’s been called many things. In the mental health professions, it is typically called “clinical supervision.” I believe it is necessary and that it should have value to all concerned . . . the client, the therapist-in-training, and, the supervisor, too.
I am sorry that you feel it is shameful for a supervisor to charge his / her usual and customary fee for providing a service to you and your clients. Can you say more about this? I’m not much of a debater, Nat, but I do value and am interested in hearing your thoughts about this.
Nat. I totally get where you’re coming from. And I must suggest to you that you leave this profession if money is a big concern–it can pay the bills for a single man, sure. But a family man, a sole breadwinner, is going to have an extremely difficult time paying the bills for 2-3 years as a supervisee who can’t even call himself a LPC/LBP/LMFT/LADC and any other letters i left out. Until society can value our profession beyond $68.72 per hour (sub contractor, so taxes on that are going to be very high–do you have the discipline to have a tax escrow account and save $15,000/year just to give it to the IRS every year?)… sorry I rambled. Until society can view our profession with more urgency and importance, we’re going to keep having salary problems. Some of the issues are as follows:
1.) Social workers have a strong political lobby, so they get a better deal than LPC/LADC/LMFT/LBP in real-world situations. In some states, LCSW candidates HAVE to have employee status, and are not allowed to be subcontractors (employee status is often a better job than a subcontractor job–but not always.)
2.) Competitive agencies are trying to spring up everywhere with all this “mental health legislation” in the news as a response to mass shootings, almost everywhere in the country has brand new agencies popping up.
3.) We don’t really have a union (not that I think a union similar to the plumbers union would end up being anything more than crony capitalism mafia)
4.) We as professionals can’t strike to demand higher wages.
5.) We do not get pay raises for cost of living increases/inflation/lost purchasing power/minimum wage increases.
6.) You will learn a lot about what to do INSIDE the therapy room in school, but they teach you very little about the political/popularity contest that is necessary to deal with to maintain an adequate caseload (human services/government caseworkers–they want you to basically be their little bitch and do their bidding when you are a masters level professional and they are bachelor’s degree-level pukes who don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground). Just remember, after all your schooling, you STILL have a LOT to learn about how to be a counselor OUTSIDE OF THE THERAPY ROOM.
Welcome back, Mr. Burnout. This is the second time that I have debated whether or not to publish your comment without any identification other than an alias. I welcome comments from all perspectives but do request that you provide an accurate identification so that those in our community can network with you here and elsewhere in a professional manner. I appreciate you dropping in to continue the dialogue and hope you can see the wisdom of my request.
Thank you for deciding to post Mr. Burnout’s message. A problem exists and the frustrations should not be “masked”. People need to know that there are serious issues concerning the counseling profession and education. Making excuses and justifying our actions only cover up the real issues. Bottom line…it needs to be addressed. Kudos to those states who made it illegal to charge for supervision.
You’re so welcome. I totally agree with you that problems exist and that all sides need to be aired and addressed. I think though, Nat, that you and I may be talking about something quite different. I am most familiar with clinical supervision typically offered in a range as infrequently as once / month or as frequently as once / week. Even on a weekly basis for a $100 / an hour that would cost $400-$500 / month (not the $16,000) that you mention. Yes, it’s a costly investment in your future but certainly not the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you are referencing.
Perhaps we are talking about apples and oranges i.e. different requirements for different types of licenses? Or, locations? Or, . . . ? I do appreciate you staying engaged in this discussion. New therapists join us every day and I want them to understand more than both you and I understood when we ventured into this field. I’m not feeling the need to “warn” them but I would like them to be better-informed than I was when I started out so that they can make right decisions for themselves.
The moral of the story is paying 100/hour does not pass the common sense test and we (as a society) are too greedy to see the bigger picture…counselors mentoring counselors to ensure that people get the help they need. Instead we are turning this valuable pool of people away from the needs of society at an important point in history by taking advantage of these poor counseling students because it’s the popular thing to do (to charge for supervision) and because mental health is the currently the top news story. Let’s say I paid someone 100/hour for supervision (I’m paying someone to work for them) and I worked 40 hours per week it would cost me $4,000 per week. That’s $16,000 per month for 160 hours. To reach my goal of 3,000 hours it will take me….approx. 19 months and $304,000 dollars (that is if all the clients show up for their appointments and my appointment book stays full). It could take me years and thousands of dollars to do what? charge someone else 100/hour to recoup my money? I am eligible for retirement now and counseling was going to my “after retirement” dream job so I would continue to serve and help my fellow man. Instead, I think I will pay myself 100/per hour, travel, raft the Colorado, and enjoy my family…end of story. Oh, and warn those who want to obtain counseling degrees.
I would like to speak my mind publicly, but I definitely prefer anonymity to punishment for not falling in line with the establishment. Critical views are not always well-received by those with power over us. I would like to correct you though Nat.
1. Supervision is charged for face to face time with your supervisor, not for every hour you work.
2. not at all saying that its affordable. Student loans for this type of education is important need. i meet with a supervisor 1.5 hors per week at 50/ hour. 300/month. i get to bill for about 10 hours of billable services each week, and easily do another 10hr/week of nonbillable work (talking to child welfare workers or doing monthly reports, staff meetings, overseeing rehab specialists/ case managers on my treatment teams, scheduling appointments, attending supervision which isnt free but costs, progress notes, etc etc etc).
I love the job. the beaurocracy is what really sucks about it. the child welfare popularity contest is the worst. not to mention, you can be sued and lose for something that isnt your fault at all. this job is not for people trying to get rich. its for people with educated working spouses or single people who dont need money that bad and who want to help and heal families and children and couples and teach parents.
Addendum: I may eventually like to network on this site, but i would much rather preserve my anonymity when criticizing the problems in this field. I will use my real name when i have more good to say or if networking is my goal. But im not really looking to network under this alias and being associated with “bashing” the profession. (even if it needs a little bashing) …
Mr. Burnout, that’s too bad. I don’t see this conversation as “bashing” the profession. Instead, I view this as a necessary and sometimes difficult conversation that has the potential to change our work settings, our training of new professionals, and the services we provide to our clients . . . all for the better. These are conversations that should have been started in graduate school by professors who had the wisdom to paint realistic pictures of this aspect mental health. And, these are conversations that practitioners should not shy away from or hide from.
It takes courage and integrity to tell the truth . . . the whole truth . . . and to work openly to change this practice of eating our young. I don’t think that this is work that gets done in the shadows. Like any other form of oppressive system, in order for the system to change it requires those in power i.e. seasoned professionals to speak up, create opportunities for dialogue and exploration, so that those without power can find their own courage to set boundaries, speak up, and create new and different systems that better serve us all.
Mr. Burnout, I think, in part, you are speaking about the many ways we don’t “practice what we preach” i.e. we claim that we teach self-care but so often we don’t practice self-care and then criticize our peers for actually practicing self-care by setting boundaries around what they will and won’t do, placing a liveable value on the services we provide.
In many ways, we (mental health professionals) eat our young. We give them the most difficult clients that they will ever encounter . . . clients with the least resources and the highest needs . . . . Then we over-burden them with ridiculous-sized caseloads, too much paperwork, and not enough support / supervision. And, often “the work” takes place within the context of agencies and organizations that are barely able to financially keep their doors open . . . agencies that spend as much time, money, and effort on how to get funds as they spend on how to provide great services while mentoring along new therapists-in-training. The environments are often political and the tactics seemingly unfair. WE. EAT. OUR. YOUNG.
I have a colleague here in Colorado – Marguerite McCormack – who works with agencies to turn this around. She speaks much more eloquently than I do about this topic. If you / your agency is recognizing this pattern and interested in turning it around, she’s a great resource to consult with or bring in to work with staff.
Ok, thank you for clarifying. I was under the impression it is $100 per hour for each hour worked-it seemed insanely expensive! Even with that, it’s still too much in my opinion to charge $100/per hour. What happened to mentoring?. I would not pay that much.
You’re so welcome, Nat! Mentoring in mental health still happens. While there is even some overlap, there are also significant differences including liability for the supervisor, a written contract between both parties, and laws and level of responsibility that dictate what must and may not happen – none of which is present in mentoring. Both are important. Both are valuable. And, based on our current system of training mental health professionals, quality clinical supervision is an investment of time and money that every mental health professional in private practice should expect to include in their professional development.
Nat. glad i could help clarify. thanks to tamara for preserving my anonymity. i think ive finally found the right company for me. good social climate. encouragement for collaboration. free in- company ceu’s. im growing into a good clinician, and i have my mentors/colleagues to thank for that. ive got mentors that helped me in prac over a year ago whom im still in contact with. i have the best supervisor in the area. sure hes 300/mo but thats worth it to me now, after hearing about supervisors who just fill out the paperwork and charge a fee without even meeting with their supervisees. my supervision experiences (i think) are preparing me for this profession in the best way possible. maybe this profession can break through the 40k/year markand reward all of us for our hard work. maybe we will get a good deal closer to what doctors or maybe even other masters degree -educatedhealth professionals in the future. im not losing hope. (but just in case that doesnt happen, my wife is in school and training to get better employment so that 40k/year doesnt suck so bad). lol.
I am an lcsw who was supervised for 3 years post grad, and now provide supervision for interns in their master’s programs as well as those post grad with a provisional license. Supervision training is required in my state for full licensure. You must have 100 hours of face to face supervision In addition to 1000-1500 hours of direct client contact (plus non direct hours, totaling 3000 hours post grad). You don’t pay for each hour of client contact, you pay for the face to face supervision hour. In my state that is 50 hours a year times 2 years for the 100 total. You are paying for 100 hours of supervision, not for the face to face time with clients. My average ratio is 1 hour supervision per 20-25 client hours. That meets my states requirements for licensing. So thinking your paying 100 for each client is misinformed. If that were the case no one would make it.
Thank you, Ang, for taking the time to clarify.
Your description of supervision is entirely in sync with my own experience in both Texas and Colorado.
I appreciate your voice in this community.
Hi, Nat! Thank you for your service in the military. What branch did you serve in and what is it you did for us?
And also thank you for taking time to drop in today to share your frustration! Your experience brings a much needed focus and yet-to-be-heard voice to this discussion. You may not know that while many therapists-in-training do choose to pay out-of-pocket for their clinical supervision; most in the USA do not. Instead, they work within agencies and / or organizations that offer supervision as a perk of employment to complete their supervised hours.
I don’t know where you are or what the specific requirements for independent practice are in your particular jurisdiction but I would encourage you to get connected (if you are not already) with
– your licensing board,
– local and state professional associations,
– networking groups specific to therapists, and
– those services uniquely in support of veterans reintegration. (I’m looking for specific recommendations from you guys)
Networking face-to-face and online among these groups are some of the most likely ways to help you navigate through this journey successfully.
Your training in the military and as a counselor afford you many, many ways to “help.” Not all of those require licensing and clinical supervision. I hope you won’t get discouraged and abandon your path. Instead, I would encourage you to wrap yourself in those core military values and see this as a challenge – something you must have faced often in Afghanistan. I don’t know what your military training prepared you to do when you were faced with situations that you had not anticipated . . . (veterans, can you help me out?) but I’m thinking that training is applicable here.
Nat, you have me thinking that it can be easy to recognize the challenges in a war zone – gunfire, support not always close at hand, landmines, and threats to your sanity and your life; but, there are challenges here in our own professional backyards that can kill our livelihoods, too – myths, lack of support, lack of knowledge, Lack of access, and our own beliefs often result in the demise of our dreams.
You have UNCOMMON training and UNCOMMON experiences that call upon your core values as a veteran. HONOR. COMMITMENT. COURAGE. You have the uncommon training and experience necessary to ferret out the ways – the many ways to help others and achieve your dreams. If getting licensed and going into private practice is the way that you choose, I know you can find YOUR way.
I hope along your journey, you will drop in often to share your next steps forward, seek support here, share what you know and let us share what we know, too. Blessings to you on your journey.
Hi Tamara,
I know I am late to this discussion but your points Tamara are so valid.
Even as an early career professional in private practice who was ready to “mentor the world” when I graduated and determined to be different from the ones who did not mentor me properly, I understand paying for supervision. It takes a lot of work, time, and effort and liability is a factor.
Once I became licensed, I started to look at the business side of our work even more which is as you stated something most of us do not learn in graduate school.
Overall, in my training I have been fortunate because I received mostly positive supervision but I understand many do not have that experience.
When I did not have a favorable experience, I had to personally seek it out.
I was fortunate in my graduate training to have a yearlong course on supervision taught by professors who created models of supervision in addition to making us complete an apprenticeship in it.
This experience has helped me to reframe “bad” supervisory experiences by understanding that supervision is a skill and the reality is most supervisors are not trained in it.
That’s why I stress to counseling students that I teach now to make the best of supervision by advocating for what they need while being cognizant of the power difference.
Tamara, have you posted previously about hiring trainees in private practice? I would love to hear/learn about the logistics of that!
Hi, Claudette! It’s so nice to find your voice here. I’m curious about your training in supervision. Was that, by chance, at the doctoral level? It sounds like such a fabulous chunk of training and I’m jealous! Where was that?
Increasingly, the standard for counselor supervision requires that clinical supervisors have formal training in supervision. That’s not true in all states yet but it is increasingly true. When I lived in Texas, I was required to complete the equivalent of a graduate course (40 hours) in clinical supervision before I was legally able to provide supervision. Here in Colorado, there are no such requirements.
Based on my experiences with supervision – as a supervisee and also as a clinical supervisor – I absolutely think that whenever possible, mental health professionals who are looking for quality supervision should hold out for and seek clinical supervision under those who have formal training in this area. You can be an excellent clinician and still be a lousy clinical supervisor. It’s an overlapping body of knowledge with some significantly different skill sets.
I’m sure I’ll get flack from some of my peers here either in the comments or back channel. But, the differences are significant.
Claudette, can you say more about what you are looking for related to hiring trainees? I’m happy to oblige if I can.
Thanks for your quick reply. I am new to your site and I am amazed (and grateful) for the wealth of information. Yes, this was at a counseling psychology doctoral program (Lehigh University), but I have not heard about this as a huge trend in doc pragmas (but I could be wrong).
I am based in Maryland and they have the LGPC which requires at least half of the required hours of supervised experience to be provided by a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor who has applied for and granted status as an “Approved Supervisor in Clinical Professional Counseling.” Maryland has a list of Approved Supervisors in Clinical Professional Counseling and some of the requirements are very similar to what you stated in terms of coursework. I agree with what you said about formal training. My clinical supervisors helped me to grow so much, and I can still refer to what they taught me.
However, I think even if someone did not have that training in grad school many options exist to receive it through CE workshops, programs, and courses. Plus, a plethora of research/literature exists on supervision especially on the supervisory relationship, multiculturalism or cross-cultural dyads in supervision, and critical moments in supervision. I would be glad to share information on here if you like from colleagues or my personal experience and work!
Regarding trainees in private practice, I wonder about the experiences (good and bad) from those who have hired a pre-licensed therapist in their practice. Some private practices create contracts with universities with practicum students in graduate school and others hire post-graduates who are seeking licensure as employees. I was curious what that experience has been like for some. Or if someone’s practice is growing, how did they decide between hiring trainees versus licensed therapists, which I am sure varies by state.
Claudette, I’m sure anything you can share related to clinical supervision – for supervisors or for supervisees – will be appreciated by those in our communinity here.
And, I want to take your question about hiring pre-licensed therapists to the front of this blog in a post. I hope that works for you. I’m sure that there will be folks who want to share their experiences with you. Check back in a week or two and I’ll get it up and published.
Hey Nat – I agree with you that $100 per hour is steep. However, I just wanted to let you know – it is not $100 per pre-license hour worked! So you don’t need to pay $100 for each of those 3000 hours. You only need a certain # of supervision hours (here in Texas, it is 4 hours per month). So for me, I’m probably going to finish my 3000 hours in 24 months, so that’s about 100 hours of supervision, or $10,000 for me. I know that’s not a lot better than $30,000, but if you can bust your butt and finish in 18 months, that will decrease the number of supervision hours you need.
That said, I do think having to pay $10,000 for minimal supervision is ridiculous. I actually have a VERY well respected and great supervisor, but she’s also a great clinician – she doesn’t have the time to do all the things that Tamara listed in her post and MOST supervisors do not. It’s not that I don’t respect supervisors or their time, but the mentality is definitely, “Well I had to go through this low pay / no respect ordeal, so you do too!”
We need more mental health clinicians, but the barriers to entry (financially at least) are way too damn high.
I am a Plpc working In private practice. I was aware a supervisor charged fees but i was not cbarged initially. My supervision was free up until the last six months of my internship. I am wondering if a supervisor automatically holds the right to charge fees at anytime? Or are they legally bound to have their fees in writing, such as in a contract? While I did have an employee contract, I do not know if the contract had anything pertaining to supervision fees. Is there a site I can find an answer to this? Thanks for your time!
Hi, Theresa! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out! This is such a great question and the answer is “It depends.” Every licensing board has its own set of rules so that’s the first place I would go – to the licensing board that your supervisor is licensed under. (And, if by chance, you are in a jurisdiction that does not require licensing of mental health professionals and your clinical supervisor is not licensed, check to see if there is a board for unlicensed therapists that s/he operates under.)
The second place to check is with the Code of Ethics from any professional association that your supervisor is a member of. As a Licensed Professional Counselor and Clinical Supervisor who is a member of the American Counseling Association, the Association for Counselor Education and Supervision, and the Colorado Counseling Association, I am obligated to abide by these particular sets of ethics. Part of these codes require informed consent and that includes my supervisees and clients knowing ahead of time what I am expecting them to pay for and how much I will charge.
The situation that you describe is disheartening. Many therapists get all of their clinical supervision at no cost by working for an agency or hospital that provides this as a perk. Certainly, every supervisor has the right to charge whatever they deem appropriate for their professional services and a written contract is considered best practice. However, to change the cost without notice or informed consent seems wrong to me 100% of the time. I hope, Theresa, once you find your definitive answer, you will drop back in here to let us know so that others can learn from you.
By the way, I noticed that you don’t have a little photo of you that shows up with your comments here (and on other blogs, too). They are called “gravatars.” Using a gravatar helps others get to know and trust you quicker.
Here’s a link to a quick tutorial that shows you how to set up your own gravatar . (Don’t worry! It’s so easy that even I could do it and it’s absolutely FREE!)
You asked me to post back once I received an answer. I emailed the Missouri Board for Professional Counselors and received the response that the board oversees ethical issues, but what I was looking for was ethics documentation on supervisors.
I did find out that reason for the fees starting was due to financial/business purposes; this makes me question that stability of the practice. I know the practice only has two Full Time LPCs and three PLPCs, of which who’s caseload totals one Full Time LPC. And of course, the PLPC’s are limited in taking only self pay and straight Medicaid. I also can’t help notice at the time the fees started, the office had acquired new staff kitchen amenities, and now more are being added as well. I know fees go towards upkeep of the facility, but this seems too coincidental.
I am not sure what to expect when I become fully licensed, if whether I am to pay office fees or make up the difference in clientele via money, as my supervisor has said both in passing, but not made officially in a contract. I am also not sure whether the contract I have signed previously is still in place. That is where I am at right now in my situation.
Theresa, thank you so much for taking time to return to update us all on your situation.
I try to put myself in your situation and . . . I remember how powerless I felt while I was under clinical supervision.
It occurs to me, Theresa, that counselors are trained to have the most difficult of conversations.
You have the skills to initiate a conversation with your supervisor.
I would recommend that you sit her down and explain that (1) you were caught off guard with the fee increase mid-internship and (2) are unsure of what to expect once you are fully licensed.
Tell her that you should request another copy of any agreement that you have previously signed and the date that contract expires; you can say that you have learned that you should start now getting clear about fees, money, etc. for your future.
Regardless of her answers, once you have whatever information she will / won’t provide, then write an email or letter to your supervisor summarizing what you understand the arrangements to be.
Ask her to confirm that this is accurate or correct any misunderstandings within the next 10 days.
Again, wishing you the best on your journey and would welcome an update at any time.
Hi Tamara,
Thanks for your article and continuing contributions to it years later. I appreciate everyone’s take here. I am a dual-licensed LMFT and LPC-S and have also been considering rates. My formula is that I currently charge students a rate of $50/session. I opted to do $300/month because I take take the hourly $50 student rate + $25 for license liability and 24/7 availability. This averages to about $300 a month for meeting weekly and $325 for dual licensed folks. I certainly remember having to pay basically a car payment, but when I broke it down for myself on this side of it all, this seemed the most fair and comfortable for me. I’d like to point out how we supervisors actually do think these things through and what is in the best interest of both the supervisees and our own businesses. Personally, I am having trouble finding supervisees or marketing for them. I am in Austin, TX. Any suggestions? I am getting my LMFT-S in a couple of weeks. Thanks again for all of those who responded.
Hi, Brianne and thank YOU for dropping in to chat today! And, thank you for taking time to share your pricing structure and how you arrived at it.
Congrats on getting your LMFT-S, too! That’s really great and I’m sure your dual supervisory status will make you twice as marketable, too!
Brianne, I work with supervisors every week to help them grow their practices. Without knowing more about your personal interests and clinical focus and what you have tried already, it would be impossible to really give a strategic plan for attracting supervisees. However, I can say that you already have a potential niche because there is a subset of trainees that need supervision for both of these licenses rather than just the one.
If you would like to consult with me on this issue on a one-time or ongoing basis, just shot me an email and I’ll send you additional information about how I work and my fees. Happy to help you get over this hump and help the right supervisees find your doorstep!
I am a clinical supervisor at a mental health clinic and I have been referred several therapists earning their hours to my private practice. I would like to do more supervision privately and am wondering if there is a website or a referral source I can become a part of in order to become more accessible to those searching.
Thanks!
Hi, Ronit! Thanks so much for dropping in to ask about this! Where are you located?
Quick questions Is there a limit as to how many students a Supervisor can take on? Also, do the students you supervise work in your office, or get jobs at other places? How do you review their work
if you are not directly working in their office? )Hippa violations if you read their case notes? Would you have their clients sign ROIS? Where do students find jobs if they aren’t licensed to get their experience, and 40 hours a week?
Thanks!
Hi, Melanie! It’s so nice to meet you? Thanks for dropping in! You have a lot of questions about supervision that have to be answered with “It depends on . . . . ” That’s because each jurisdiction determines their own rules for clinical supervision to satisfy licensure requirements. Your best bet is to contact your licensing board to find out the answers that are going to apply to you in your specific location.
Best wishes on your journey!
Hi Tamara, I just want to say once again what a treasure you are to the field. I follow you on Facebook and Twitter, BUT today when I googled information about supervising interns and clicked on the first link it just so happened to be you! Your information here is exactly what I was looking for as I am taking the required (by Florida) 16 hour class to become a qualified supervisor and wanted to know what to charge as far as fees go. Also, while here I read your other posts about supervision and they were very informative and very much appreciated. The information you share with your readers is sometimes (unfortunately) hard to come by and not usually free! Thank you again.
-T. Richards, LMHC
Hi, Torey! Thank you . . . for following my blog, following me on Facebook and on Twitter, too! I so appreciate the loyalty! I’ve been to your blog, too! In fact, I tried to leave a comment on your blog post about all of the police killings but it wouldn’t let me leave it there :(. Not sure what the problem was but I could so feel your passion just jumping off the post! Thank YOU for blogging about such an important topic.
I’m so glad you are finding what you are looking for related to providing supervision. Let me know if you are ever looking for any information about building a private practice, providing clinical supervision or therapy for therapists. If I don’t have it already written, I’m happy to point you to my favorite resources to help you strengthen your own practice!
Torey, I hope you’ll be back often to join the conversations here!
This has been a topic that has been difficult to swallow when I first finished my graduate degree in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. As a young and fledgling LAC, I was having a hard time figuring out how to get my clinical hours to count when none of the supervisors in the agencies I worked was ACS (Approved Clinical Supervisor) certified. In NJ where I practice, it is required that your clinical supervisor have his/her ACS.
Among the ACS certified supervisor I have looked up, many of their rates were $100 or above which honestly seemed very high for a young and fledgling LAC. However, after doing some research, I learned that any “out of pocket” clinical supervision costs were considered “profession continuation fees” under the current Federal Tax Code. With this knowledge, it somewhat softened the blow of seeking an independent ACS clinical supervisor. As I knew that a portion of the $15,000 I would need to spend on Supervision for 3 years as an LAC would return to me via Tax Refund.
Ultimately, I went ahead and pursued the independent ACS clinical supervisor route. From my experience, the rate was well-worth the $100 that I paid for supervision. My supervisor also told me how she struggled with charging a high fee for supervision, but ensured that I would have her utmost attention as a supervisor. She lived up to her word as she was just an e-mail or a phone call away if needed and properly mentored me to hone and grow my skills.
EdquilagLPC, thank you for taking the time to share the evolution of your thinking about this. My story is similar to your own. As a new graduate, I couldn’t fathom how I could manage those costs nor did I see the value of having that 1:1 time, attention and resources of a committed clinical supervisor – until later.
We don’t know what we don’t know – right? Research underscores this truth over and over again. Therapists (both new and seasoned) consistently (along with the rest of the population) typically over-estimate what we know and under-estimate what we need to know. We do not do well at assessing our areas of vulnerability and competence. Thus, we need more seasoned professionals to supervise and consult with throughout our professional lives.
I know that the next new therapist that comes along to read this post will likely not believe or understand the full value of this supervision requirement any more than you or I did. However, I hope in hindsight, he / she will be able to see that conscientious and committed clinical supervisors are not just greedy therapists looking for an easy buck at new clinicians’ expenses.
Your unsolicited sharing might help others bite the bullet and remain a little more open-minded about their own clinical supervision. Blessings to you on your journey!
I’m not surprised by the fact that I will have to pay for supervision (although I will say that I found that out on my own and not through my school or professors). I do have a question that I haven’t seen addressed yet in the posts/articles, etc. that I have read. When should I start looking for a supervisor? Before graduation? After? I graduate in Spring 2016 and would like to be prepared. Any help is appreciated.
Hi, Tiffany! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out!
And, thank you for joining the conversation!
I had no idea that I would likely be required to obtain supervision post-graduation on my own dime.
Nor did it occur to me that I would need to find my own clinical supervision so your question is a good one.
From the minute you get in grad school, you should start looking for and identifying possible mentors, supervisors, and professionals to consult with.
You’ll never have a better pool of possible candidates for these roles than you do while you are in higher ed.
And, as you have opportunities to venture out into your own community where you will likely be post-graduation, that is also a place to be looking for potential mentors, supervisors, and colleagues to consult with.
As you near graduation – possibly as early as your last year – it’s time to begin engaging those individuals in conversations about formalizing their relationships with you.
Those conversations can flow easily from job-hunting to clinical supervision.
And, maybe, if you’re lucky, you’ll find your clinical supervision provided gratis with some of those jobs your are entertaining.
Best wishes on your journey, Tiffany!
Tamara-
Thanks for all your info. It’s wonderful to read along. I found myself on your site after a google search with a question around supervision. I am a new supervisor in Colorado, trained to a Master’s level in counseling psychology, and am wondering if you know of a limit within this jurisdiction of how many intern-trainees (3rd year master’s students) an LPC should take on. I have not been able to find this through our licensing board’s websites or conversations with colleagues.
Hi Tamara,
I really appreciate all the great information you have on this site as well as the huge commitment of time and energy you make to respond to all these posts!
The link below is from the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists for an article relevant to this topic – Charging Trainees and Intern Employees for Supervision: Part 1 .
Hi, Lisa! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out!
And, thank you so much for sharing this article concerning California’s MFT’s.
While these rules may apply in California, what’s most important is for pre-licensed therapists to recognize that the jurisdictions that are working under – typically here in the USA that’s our state licensing boards and state laws – dictate when and when clinical supervisors may charge for their services.
Like most other things, in our field, there is rarely a one-size-fits-all answer for each of us.
Lisa, I hope you’ll drop in often to join us in our community here to chat!
Tamara~ I came upon this post while perusing your site and the title caught my eye because I am a clinical supervisor as well. I also charge UCR for supervision for the reasons you explained. During my own internships, I had various supervisors as I switched to various experiences. I worked for an agency, a college counseling center, a pregnancy center, and a private practice. The only supervision I paid for was at the private practice. It was also the very best supervision I received. I was little taken aback when I discovered how much it would cost me, but it was well worth it. My supervisor took her duties much more seriously since I was paying her. I remember coming to her one time and discussing my other supervision experiences, and she said, “Linda, you deserve good supervision.” A lightbulb went off, and I realized not only did I deserve it, I absolutely needed it to become the therapist I wanted to become. Great post, Tamara.
I have worked for two community Mental Heath centers in eastern and western Colorado. I am a MSW student at DU. I am a licensed Addictions Clinician in the State of Colorado and a MAC with NAADAC. I was asked to clinically supervise a young detox staff to get their Unlicensed Psychotherapist designation, CAC I & II certifications. The Administrative Supervisor / Owner has a CAC II and can not clinically supervise her staff. She believes my charging $200 per hour to supervise her staff (a group of 6 + people) is too much and she told me she can only pay me $400 a month. I am in my 60’s, I have two Master’s degrees, I have years of experience with Dual Diagnosis. Right now, this is the only gainful income I have, mostly due to my age. I don’t not believe charging $200 per hour for a group setting is too much. That is why my question, the rate of $65 per hour, is that per person per hour, or is it per hour for the whole group? If, justifiably, I could be charging $65 per person per hour, that is
Hi, LuAnn! Thanks for asking for clarification.
When I am talking about providing clinical supervision in this blog post, I am talking about a clinician being hired by individuals – and not an organization – in either group supervision or individual supervision.
When organizations (either non-profits or for-profits) hire you to provide clinical supervision, they will not typically compensate you at these same rates.
That is, in part, because
(1) both you and the hiring organization can both be held liable for any acts (of omission or commission) by those being supervised;
(2) the clinical supervisor has not had to market their services to these therapists-in-training. Instead, they have been gathered and referred to you with little marketing efforts on your part.
(3) And, if the organization is a non-profit, it will often not have the funds to accommodate your private pay fees.
Assuming you have a recognized credential in clinical supervision and you are contracting with an organization to provide your services, my recommendation is that you accept no less than your hourly counseling.
For example, if you hourly counseling fee is typically $125 / hour, and you are being asked to provide 4 hours of group supervision / month, I suggest you charge a minimum of $500 / month.
My understanding is that unlicensed therapists are more likely to have board complaints and law suits filed against them (and that translates to more liability for their clinical supervisors, too).
You may want to take this into consideration when negotiating your fee.
Whatever, you decide to charge, I would encourage you to get a written contract for the work you are being hired to provide in order to protect all parties involved.
Best wishes to you on your journey!
Hi Ijust read your blog and I had some questions, I just graduating high school and starting college. My goal is to become a mental health counselor, if you have to complete 4000 hours for paid supervision and it’s 150$ an hour does that actuallyean that it could cost half a million dollars to become licensed? Is it an hour for hour thing? I’m a bit confused, I just started looking into this, as it’s my dream job.
Hi, Nico! Welcome to Private Practice from the Inside Out and thank you for taking time to ask about this!
I suppose it’s feasible that your clinical supervision could cost that much money; however, a much smarter and less-expensive way to knock out those hours (and develop a wider repertoire of clinical skills and experience) would be to graduate from school and then take on a job that provides clinical supervision at a hospital, agency, or institution for a few years.
Five or ten years after that, you’ll be ready for private practice if you wish.
This is the path that the most skilled therapists I know have taken.
There are experiences in those settings that you won’t likely get in private practice but will need in order to learn accurately assess and rule out particular diagnoses / conditions; there is mentoring that we all need – especially in the early years of our development; and there are structures and practices that you will learn in those settings that will serve you well, too.
I’ve written more about the benefits of working in an agency in a three-part series.
I hope you will stay in touch right here as you move through your college training.
Looking forward to meeting you one day and calling you “colleague!”
Hi Tamara,
Thank you for your positivity even in the context of a tense discussion. A testament to your clinical wisdom, for sure! I’ve been perusing your site (which is beautiful and very user-friendly, btw), and wanted to throw in some info on this post that I didn’t see when scrolling through the comments thus far. Apologies if I’m duplicating something.
I’m a licensed clinical psychologist in California. Psychologists and psychology trainees are not allowed to pay for supervision directly at any level of training before licensure. The way that psychology trainees typically end up “paying” for supervision is through either their lower salaries as a supervisee in a non-profit or government agency, or through fee-splitting in a private practice. This is the approach taken by our group practice.
The group practice I work in is owned by my friend, colleague, and business partner, Ernesto Segismundo (whom I believe you are familiar with). He pays me to supervise pre-licensed clinicians at the same rate as my “take-home” pay for seeing a client after fee-splitting. As a licensed clinician within the practice I do a fee split that is a bit higher than our pre-licensed clinicians because there is no need to pay someone to supervise me.
In case it is helpful, let’s break down an example:
Prelicensed clinician A sees 10 clients per week at $100/session ($1000/week before any fee splits, taxes, etc.). Let’s assume approximately a 50/50 split ( I can’t speak to what each of our supervisees actually gets because that information is between them and the business owner). This leaves us with $400/week for part time work, with room for some profit for the business (otherwise it’s not a business, but a charity), and room to pay the supervisor without asking them to take a paycut to provide supervision (a required clinical competency in doctoral psychology training, seen as on par with other services psychologists are trained to provide, not something seen as being a community service option or charitable contribution to the field- it requires training and supervision to acquire similar to therapy, psychological testing, etc.). If we pay our supervisors well, it’s more likely that supervisees will get high quality supervision from engaged supervisors, rather than supervision from possibly under-qualified, less experienced clinicians who are just desperate to fill their schedule and haven’t been able to get as many full fee clients as they’d like. Ever wonder why it’s hard to keep licensed clinicians at county operated clinics? It’s largely because the pay and benefits are low, while the workload expectations are high. I feel bad for the clients, but not bad enough to put my own family’s well-being in jeopardy by continuing to work at an underfunded clinic that burns out therapists and supervisors at an alarming rate. I digress…
So $400/week for 10-ish hours of work. Not bad, right? The pre-intern does not pay for supervision, and because they take a lower percentage of the fee than if they were licensed, the practice owner can afford to pay the supervisor their take-home rate. We have to keep in mind that to provide an hour of supervision, the practice has to give up an hour of earning potential when the supervising clinician does not see another paying client, in effect, doubling the cost of supervision to the company. So, for the one hour of supervision that might cost the company $100, it’s actually closer to $200.
All told, the company is paying the intern $40/hour (almost twice what county/nonprofit work typically pays), plus the costs of supervision, marketing, overhead (building space, furniture, printer/ink, electricity, internet, phones, email, accident insurance associated with leasing space, amenities in the office (snacks, Keurig cups, etc.), website design and upkeep, business cards, etc. Not a bad deal! Not to mention that our interns get paid hourly for any marketing work they do (writing blogs, attending formal networking events, etc.), the fact that they receive free marketing videos (face value cost over $1000 each), 401k availability, and other perks. I think our interns are pretty well taken care of, and the cost of supervision is really pretty reasonable. It’s certainly different from the “pay per hour” for supervision model, and may actually end up costing them more direct cash than if they simply hired the supervisor externally by the hour and ran their own business, as seems to be the focus of this discussion, but it seems like a pretty decent deal when you consider all the factors.
As I tell Ernesto all the time, I’m very happy to be making money for both of us by seeing clients and letting him handle all of the non-clinical elements of the practice. This allows me to have a full time job in academia, see clients, supervise other clinicians, and still have some sense of balance in my life so I can see my wife and kids once in a while. It’s not all about money. The day my clinical work becomes just about the money, it’s time to reevaluate my priorities.
Thanks again for your wise words and pleasant moderation of this discussion, Tamara! I look forward to any further thoughts you may have on this.
Hi, Robert! Thanks for joining in the conversation and explaining so clearly the circumstances that are unique to psychologists in California!
Context is everything, isn’t it?
For example, professional counselors (as opposed to psychologists) are (ethically and in many states, legally) not permitted to engage in fee splitting; in fact, our professional associations strongly encourage even the appearance or hint of fee splitting.
By sharing your understanding of your agreement with your clinical supervisor, you are enabling other therapists to consider and evaluate how they would like to compensate for their own supervisors.
Thank you for taking the time to share this information and explanation here on Private Practice from the Inside Out!
I am a LAADC certified therapist with CCAPP and MAC Certified with NAADAC. I am also AMFT waiting for my Clinical exam. My question is can I supervise CADAC interns at this time? My LADC and MAC certificates are in good standing. I am under supervision for my AMFT. I am working with the SUD population. I am also certified as a Domestic Violence facilitator.in California. I would appreciate your feedback.
Hi, Antonio! I love that you are thinking about expanding your services by sharing your clinical knowledge. The short answer is it depends. You’re going to have to check the licensing board in your own state where you practice. Their rules are going to be different than those for other states. So . . . check with the California requirements to get the definitive answer!
And, if you do end up supervising and are a member of my Facebook Group, don’t forget to list yourself under the Clinical Supervision Roll Call!
The answer is yes to that one
You will have to fill out a form with qualifications when they submit their hours, but it takes a couple minutes. CCAPP should accept that no problem
I’m a dual licensed Clinical Supervisor (LPC and LISAC) I don’t know if this will be helpful. Ms. Suttle’s rates are about right I would charge $100-$150 for Clinical Supervision of Associate Licensed Clinician’s when I was providing their Clinical Supervision. In my case I worked for an agency where Clinical Supervision was provided as part of the work (so there is that option). On can think of paying $150 an hour as high but for the Clinician qualified to provide those hours often have their own work to do and that can already be allot. Yes “they should” explain about this in school, but as a skilled Clinical Supervisor I’d add there’s a lot they leave out in school that a good Clinical Supervisor will provide. Just think of how much one pays a University for each individual class what one pays for Clinical Supervision by comparison is small (but one notices because it comes out of their pocket).
Michael
Hi, Michael! Thanks for dropping in to join this conversation.
I was clueless when I entered graduate school about all the additional costs and hoops to jump through in order to practice independently and competently.
But, in hindsight, I have found every single penny and every single ounce of effort to be investments well-made.
This process has been nothing short of dismal. In fact I recent considered going to an accelerated 3-year medical school which would take me less time than it would be to get the hours necessary for licensure as a psychologist. The residency would pay about 80k or more depending on where I resided. Yes, hindsight is definitely 20/20, and to think that I would make 200% to 300% more as a physician has made the prospect of becoming a licensed psychologist somewhat disenchanting.
Oh, Kamal! I’m so sorry to hear that you feel this way but I also totally get it!
I went into graduate school being less than informed about what it would entail for me to hang out my shingle.
And, honestly, I bumped and felt my way along learning as I go.
That’s one of the reasons I started this blog – so that other therapists might be more informed along their own journeys and no caught so off guard.
I had no idea that I would need clinical supervision or that I might very well need to pay for it or how much that supervision might cost or how long it might go on.
What I can say is that I have, in hindsight, never regretted my investments of time, energy or money.
The entire experience – humps and all – have fed my spirit tenfold over and I hope that turns out to be the case for you, too.
Before you decide to jump ship and head off in another direction, I would encourage you to consider what is going to be most meaningful to you and feed your spirit long term.
If you love the science and schedule that will be yours if you go into medicine, that may be a wise and near-perfect pivot for you to make!
On the other hand, if you prefer the relational work (or perhaps you’re experimental) in psychology? that is going to bring the most meaning to your life, then I do hope you’ll find a way to stick with your training and supervision.
We do pay our dues and experience steep learning curves early in both fields and reap the vast majority of benefits over time.
Either way, I hope you’ll stay in touch, drop back in here, and let us know how you are faring!
Blessings to you on your journey, Kamal!
My supervisor basically has no overhead but is taking 50% of everything I make. I feel like I am being gouged. At least in my state, one is not allowed to pay the supervising psychologist directly. That’s one of the reasons they take a percentage. 50% just feels like my supervisor is being an opportunist.
Hi, Anita!
I’m sorry that you feel like your clinical supervisor is being an opportunist and taking advantage of you.
I’m really happy for your supervisor if she has managed to pay off the mortgage for her office or has been smart enough to arrange for a low-fee or no-fee office space.
Of course, that doesn’t really impact the value that she provides to you.
I wonder what you might advise your clients when they feel like their supervisors are not providing enough service in exchange for their stated fees.
I would recommend that you / they speak candidly with the supervisor about your feelings and concerns.
A supervisor should be able to justify her fee to you and you should be able to feel comfortable with her explanation.
And, you should know that as a therapist who may eventually end up in private practice, you will likely have clients who will challenge your fees, too.
The conversation you initiate and have with your supervisor – regardless of the content – will likely inform how you choose to deal with such challenges down the road.
However, if you and your supervisor are unable to come to a comfortable understanding of her fees, I would suggest that you consider moving on to a different supervisor.
I look forward to hearing how you grow your edges!
Hello. I have a question about pre graduate/student supervision hours. How much do you-does one charge for that.?
Hi, Regina. Thanks for dropping in to chat tonight!
I recommend charging at least as much as your full fee for a clinical hour.
That can vary considerably based on where you are practicing and what is included in that supervision package.
Well I’m glad I read this before I went to grad school at least, but consider this a dream shattered. I’ll never be able to afford to serve the communities I want to if this is what it takes. I wanted to be a counselor for people with eating disorders and set my rates affordably because I was always priced out of professional help. Now I see I’ll either be in debt for the rest of my life or be forced to charge the kind of rates that barred me from treatment just to break even. I don’t know what I expected.
Hi, Max! My intent was not to shatter your dream.
It was only to provide an explanation to those therapists in training who are seeing clinical supervision and finding the cost to be frustrating at best.
Depending on the discipline you pursue and where you are geographically will dictate a lot of the parameters concerning how and where you obtain your clinical supervision – and those will, in turn, inform the eventual cost of that experience.
Many agencies, organizations, and institutions (including hospitals) choose to provide your clinical supervision (or hire it out at no cost to you) while you are employed with them.
That is how I obtained mine and how many other clinicians in the United States have also obtained theirs.
There are benefits and tradeoffs regardless of how you choose to get those clinical experiences and supervision.
I would encourage you to hang onto your dream, do your research with the licensing board that you will eventually get licensed under, speak with other seasoned therapists in your own jurisdiction now to learn about the various ways to obtain the clinical experience and supervision that you will eventually need.
The path can be daunting in the beginning.
But, with your own history, the heart work that you desire to do can be incredibly rewarding as you help others get the help that you wanted for yourself.
Thank you for dropping in today to chat.
Blessings to you on your journey!
I am a medical biller and have been trying to find information on this subject. While I agree it must suck graduating and being stuck to find a supervisor and not realizing you have to pay for it, The OP is correct in all of the considerations you have to make in the fees.
One company I work with takes 45% of the LLMSW income, another charges an hourly/weekly fee of $100 and the LLMSW pays a fee for billing using that supervisors credentials (For insurances that require billing under the supervisor).
I’m a bit perplexed with the agitation of a poster complaining of the fees and what is collected. I’m also not seeing any dates here. The people I bill for make at least $100 a session if not more thru insurance. They do not accept insurances that pay less and the practices are full.
Most people don’t do training as charity and do it to make money and to be compensated for their time. It is correct that their malpractice insurance is higher, it is also correct that the supervisors I work with read all of the notes, and are available for their supervisees. It is also a lot of work on my own end to help them navigate insurances, billing etc. While I do not charge extra for this as I am paid by the supervisors it should be added to the benefits the supervisees are receiving because the supervisors pay me for my time.
There truly is no such thing as a free lunch, and internships, training, and supervision are not free because a supervisor has already reached the level they are at, and have the experience needed to help train new counselors and/or therapists, but cannot be expected to do it for free. It is not the norm, nor should it be to expect people to help train you for free.
BE, thank you so much for taking so much time to detail your own experience and observations related to clinical supervision.
I especially appreciate that you are sharing it here.
Many therapists enter the field believing it to be their “calling” or “mission in life” to provide clinical services while failing to discern the financial implications or extent of labor involved.
(That includes me, by the way.”
However, after 30 years in the field, I’m clear now that you cannot give away what you do not have; if you want to give services away, you must first have a way to financially provide them.
There is no need to struggle over the need to make a profit – and if the struggle exists, then it’s time to do a little consulting or therapy to explore what that’s about.
In New York state, you need 1,750 hours of supervised experience to become a Psychologist. If lucky, a graduate will be hired to work in a place where they can get that supervision on-the-job or perhaps during study if even luckier. If unlucky like most would-be Psychologists, they’ll be getting that experience after finishing their Doctorate and that means they’ll have a great chance of having to pay:
$100/hr x 1,750 = $175,000, and that’s on top of the tuition they already paid to get the degree in the first place.
This has to end. The profession doesn’t pay even remotely enough money for this to be reasonable let alone ethical. Anyone contributing to that has to take a step back and think about what they’re contributing to.
Becoming licensed was already unnecessarily difficult enough, then throw in the monkey wrench of what the virus has caused and you can multiply that difficulty. The field needs major reform. The Universities could band together and help this in a number of ways through technology and more significant integration of curriculum and contact hours WITHOUT charging more money for it, but they’re only interested in money (despite many operating under the title of being “non-profit”) and don’t care what happens to people once they’re no longer paying customers.
Hi, Max. I appreciate you dropping in here to share your opinion.
Access is definitely an issue for all of the mental health disciplines.
Hello,
Supervision, even at agencies ir clinics is also costly. Now, in Iowa, interns are required to Sign an additional two-year contract so that if they decide to leave prior to the two years they have to pay all the money back. And what ends up happening often at agencies and clinics is that the clinician is scheduled anywhere from 7 to 8 clients per day. That takes a great toll on people’s mental health
Thank you, Monique, for adding to the conversation here.
Yours is a dual reminder that (1) circumstances do continue to change and (2) that mental health professionals – and not just our clients – need to be cognizant of the toll our training and our work takes on our mental wellness.
Appreciating your time and your comment, Monique!
Thank you so very much for this professional response to the cost of supervising a new therapist. It is an awesome responsibility and not one to be taken lightly. I was somewhat hesitant to take on this role, but I may take on this task that someone sacrificed and took on for me.
You and your wisdom are much appreciated!
Hi, Janie!
Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to to drop in here and say this.
You’ve made my day!
I hope you’ll drop back in to chat any time!
Another perspective on how supervision and licensure regulations are keeping people out of the profession: In Michigan we must see clients at least 16 hours a week for our time to be counted at all. I obtained my MSW to begin a second career and as I am also a caregiver I cannot work full-time at an agency. Part-time is fine with me, but building a practice on my own makes it more challenging to find clients, so I’m faced with the fact that I’ll likely have many weeks or months this first year that won’t count toward my hours–even though I’m paying for supervision!
Thank you, Carol for saying this!
It’s true that by the time we obtain our licenses, we often have many more hours of experience than we are required to have.
I appreciate you taking the time to drop in and chat.
I would like to thank Tamara for fielding questions and answers so well. This is a hot topic both in our office and surrounding offices at the moment.
Many people here have posted comments with resentment and anger towards supervision and supervisors. After reading their posts I don’t disagree with people who are paying and not receiving the help, mentorship, and supervision they should. I can say that where I work, the LLMSW’s are paying for supervision but we also have community. We are all here to support one another.
Here is an example of how it is done here:
LLMSW works 20 hours a week. They do their own billing. I over see the billing and make sure it’s billed correctly and if there is a question we will go over it together.
The supervisor meets with them weekly. They go over the LLMSW’s notes and the LLMSW has a chance to go over questions and/or problems they may be having.
The LLMSW’s payment information will look like this. First let me tell you what is included. They rent and share an office here with another therapist who is also part time. Included in their rent is trash, waiting room, internet, fully stocked and cleaned restrooms etc.
LMSW #1
Sees 20 patients a week x 4 is 80 a month. Earns about $8000 monthly. Everyone here earns $100 or more an appointment with insurance.
Rent $200
Billing we charge $10 a claim for them to bill with the Supervisors NPI x80 = $800
Weekly (3x mo) meeting with Supervisor $100×3 Mo. $300
LMSW#1 Pays out $1,300 Monthly Leaving them $6,700 of their own money to pay taxes.
While this may seem like a lot of money you have to also consider the Supervisor is paying for the building mortgage, upkeep and maintenance as well as all utilities. They are not seeing patients to meet with the LLMSW and taking extra time to read and sign off on their notes. The Supervisor is allowing the LLMSW to use the NPI they have worked hard for and earned to bill as well.
Another thing a good supervisor can help you with is finding your niche. On of our LMSWs wanted to work with young adults and after a few months decided that wasn’t for them. The supervisor helped them regroup and find the niche for them. The LMSW is happier.
BE, bless your heart for your kind words and also for taking such a significant amount of time to share your office’ practice here.
That is so helpful to newer therapists coming behind you!
I appreciate your voice in this community!
Thank you!
Late to the game, but I found this post when I was searching for more information about qualified supervisor training. I’m a licensed mental health counselor in FL, and I was fortunate to receive free supervision through my first job. My supervisor explained that she did not charge for supervision because 1) the time was already built into our work schedule and 2) she was compensated by the agency for providing licensure supervision per registered intern.
I was also fortunate that my graduate program explained the possibility of paying for licensure supervision because of the compensation for the supervisor’s training, liability, and time. If the supervisor isn’t at the same workplace as me, they are taking time they could have spent potentially working with a client or are spending extra work time to provide supervision to me.
It seems a lot of people are confused about the actual compensation rate. My understanding has always been that the compensation is per hour of supervision, not per hour of client contact. FL requires 100 hours of supervision per 1500 hours of client contact to become licensed, which is broken down into 1 hour of supervision per week with a minimum of 15 client contact hours per week. So a $100 supervision fee for 100 hours would be about $10,000 over the course of 2 years.
I can definitely see how this cost can be off-putting, especially with the already abysmal salary for most master’s level counselors new to the field (average is about $35-40k in FL). Thanks to the transparency of my program, I knew I would likely have to do my time at the local community mental health agency in my area to complete my licensure requirements. Not only did I receive free supervision, but I was also able to complete the required domestic violence and HIV/AIDS courses for licensure because they were offered for free at the agency. The only course I had to complete on my own time with my own money was the FL laws and rules.
Although I did not have to pay for my supervisor, I gladly would have if I had needed to because she was someone who had prioritized my growth and was not afraid to bring my attention to decisions or experiences that could have been better. Some supervisors have different areas to focus on (diagnosis, modality, documentation, etc.). My supervisor hit hardest on ethics and navigating compassion fatigue/burnout, and that will always stay with me.
I’m considering whether or not to pursue training to become a qualified supervisor here in FL, but I have had my reservations about it because of the additional responsibility. As I’ve grown as a professional, I’ve learned to better value my time and my skills. I have found this discussion about supervision compensation to be interesting!
TA-LMHC!! Thank you so much for expanding this conversation.
I don’t think counselors-in-training sometimes stop to consider all the “freebies” that their employees can and do often provide including the safety and security that come as perks when working in agencies, additional trainings, and often clinical supervision – huge benefits in place of large salaries in exchange for on the job experience and trainings.
I appreciate your voice here and do hope you pursue training in clinical supervision at some point in your career.
You obviously are a thoughtful professional who has some insight into how your own training and supervision have paid off for you in your own clinical experience and skills.
Thanks for stopping in to chat about this choice point for mental health professionals.
It’s not always clear to counselors-in-training how and why great clinical supervision is so critical.
Hi Tamara
Thank you for this. I am only just in the process of applying to grad school and am still discerning btw msw and counseling. What I am concerned about, and having trouble finding information about, is how to figure out where to find supervisors or what agencies are able to offer this for post grad hours–for either degree. I am in NY and the Counselors Association maintains a list of willing supervisors but there are only 14 people out for the whole state (I understand its incomplete).
I also understand you are recommending simply networking as much as possible… I live in a rural area and will either go to school online or temporarily move for school and then return. Its been very hard to tell if I will be able to find supervision at all, even though there are va centers, rehab centers, hospitals, private practices, colleges, etc, it’s still a very rural area.
Is my only option to just contact agencies now and fine out? It’s important to me to at least have some idea beforehand to know if this career path is even feasible, and also bc social work supervision requirements are more strict and therefore may be less available.
I do have a handful of friends who are finishing either kind of degree, spread over the country–not all, but some have had a very hard time finding supervision and have absolutely not found it in an agency where they can work.
From reading all the comments here, it sounds like though you have said most people in the US recieve supervision at their place of work, and that you chose this route, but many commenters have not had that experience and it sounds like have not had that choice available. Where did you get the idea that this is possible for most people?
Im also wondering if you have any suggestions for resources or research around this. Thank you so much for writing clearly about this.
Hi, Jordan! I apologize for the delay in getting back to you.
I’ve had family obligations related to a death in the last couple of months and have unintentionally neglected my blog.
Trying to clean a bit of that up today and am delighted to find your questions here.
You are obviously going to be a mental health professional with initiative!
I love that!
Before I address finding clinical supervision, I want to address “which direction to go” a little differently than you have.
Availability of supervisors (and good ones at that!) is important; but where you want to end up in the field might be even more important in determining which degree to pursue.
Do you know what it is you want to end up doing? What setting you might want to practice in?
I ask because different settings often prefer different credentials and training.
For example, if you know that you know that you know that you want to work in traditional medical settings like hospitals working with med/surg patients, you will have more clout with a social work degree.
If you know that you know that you know that you want to work as a career counselor, then you will have more credibility with a counseling degree.
There are other fields with other preferences, too.
If you know that you want to provide psychological assessments, then a psychology degree would serve you best.
Now, none of that is “fair;” and, it’s not as if any one of those degree holders couldn’t, wouldn’t or doesn’t do any of those things . . . .
They do!
It’s just a little more difficult (and sometimes a lot more difficult) to get your foot in the door.
The truth is that research says that while our mental health disciplines to train and emphasize different information and ways of working; the reality is that by 5 years post-degree, the ways we work look decidedly similar and the results we achieve look remarkable similar, too.
Do the different degrees matter? Of course!
But, no so much in competency and effectiveness; but, mores in the ways we see our clients and our works.
So . . . if you happen to know that you know that you know what it is you want to do, please do take that into consideration first!
And, if you are like me who had many interests and directions to pursue after graduate school, then yes, perhaps looking for availability of clinical supervisors would make more sense.
You have contacted the NY Counselors Association for the state; but have you also contacted any (of several) national professional associations including those that credential clinical supervisors?
For professional counselors, that would be the ACS (the Approved Clinical Supervisor credential).
(And, while New York does not require a specific certification for the clinical supervision of counselors-in-training, many states do. And, that means that by contacting the licensing boards in those states, you may also find a bunch of potential supervisors to assist you with your supervision!)
Additional places that you may want to look to assist you in finding clinical supervisors include:
– sending out tweets or posts on social media “In search of clinical supervisor (in the state of ___) for ___ (whatever your discipline is).
– contacting the universities that you are considering to speak with professors in the department you are considering training in to ask for potential clinical supervisors; many professors offer clinical supervision to post-grads to meet their own mentoring and service needs and augment their own income, too.
– agencies (like the local mental health departments and crisis lines), organizations (like Autism Speaks or The Ackerman Institute for the Family – Gender and Family Project) or institutions (like Community Institute for Psychotherapy or MultiCare Behavioral Health)
– ask licensed individuals who have been in the field for a while “Who are the clinical supervisors that you most respect?” and if they would be willing to introduce you to them when you are ready to meet them
– attend a professional conference (No – you don’t need to wait until you graduate to attend) and talk with the attendees; most of the presenters and attendees there will either have provided or received clinical supervision along the way
– reach out to the authors of professional journal articles that interest you (Their contact info is typically included with their published articles) to inquire about their services in supervision or their recommendations.
– find out what the resources are for clinical supervisors in your area and familiarize yourself with them – whether they are consultation groups for supervisors, trainings for supervisors, or simply happy hours for supervisors!
And, yes, almost all of this constitutes networking and research in one way or another.
Yes, this is more networking.
You could hire me to find the perfect supervisor for you but . . why would you?
This networking is, in part, the hidden job of a clinician.
If you enter the field of mental health in any capacity, you will spend the rest of your professional life seeking out resources that are relevant to your clients needs, your own needs, and those of your colleagues, too.
If networking is already a well-honed skill of yours, you’re ahead of your peers!
And, if it’s not your strength already, then this is a good opportunity to begin to work on it.
Your work with your clients and their welfare will require it.
Your own sanity and life satisfaction will require it.
Don’t be afraid to speak with strangers you don’t yet know in the field to find the perfect clinical supervision you need.
If your experience is like mine, you will find your supervision to be like a whole new level of learning and performance!
Wishing you luck on your journey, Jordan!
Let me know what you find out along the way!
Hi Tamara,
I worked at agencies and decided to enter a private practice setting under the supervision of a licensed social worker. The private practice setting is where my passion lies, and I am so happy to be doing this work. My supervisor is towards the end of her career, seasoned and a great pick.
But I wonder if I am in fact being price gouged by my supervisor. My situation is this: I pay her 40% of my earnings, an additional 10% for the office space included for 2.5 days. And I have to pay her $160 for each first supervision hour *on top* of the 50% cut weekly. Once I see more than 10 people a week, I will have to pay her for another hour of weekly supervision at $160. So, *besides the 50% cut from my earnings*, when I see over 10 clients, I will have to pay her $1,280 a month for 2 hours of weekly supervision.
I understand supervisors at her level are seasoned and should be compensated accordingly. But I feel that supervision hours should be included in the 50% cut.
Can you kindly let me know if this arrangement seems typical? I am not looking to triangulate with my supervisor. I am simply looking to find out if I need to find a more balanced and beneficial financial dynamic. I need to pay my bills.
Hi, Elizabeth! The short answer is . . . I need more information.
Are you working as an employee of hers?
Or are you working under a contract with her?
Answer that, and, I’ll know better how to answer this.
I thought I would be covered under my supervisor’s liability insurance. I was asked to pay roughly $300 for my own. Is it usual as a private practice intern to pay for your own liability insurance and the monthly service fee for the accounting program they use to cut intern paychecks?
Hi, Eliabeth! Oh, WOW!
These are two really important and great questions to ask here.
Thank you for taking time to ask them!
No matter who you are and what role you are in, you will always want to carry your own liability insurance and never rely on someone else to do so on your behalf.
The reason for this is whether it’s your supervisor OR your employer OR even some volunteer setting, their liability insurance company and policy is ALWAYS going to be in service to THEM – meaning that if you and that individual / company are ever on opposite sides of a liability issue, their policy (and their attorneys) will always work to defend them EVEN AT YOUR EXPENSE.
The “accounting program” that you reference is an entirely different matter.
That program is set up for your supervisor / employer’s preference and convenience and, in my opinion, should not be a cost that is passed on to either you or a client.
Instead, your supervisor should consider factoring that amount into her own cost of doing business; in fact, it is she who will get a tax deduction (in the USA) for that accounting program and not you.
I’m sorry that you have found yourself in this position and hope you are able and willing to have a frank discussion with her about this point of view.
And, if you are actually still in your graduate or post-graduate program (which I think you may be since you referred to “intern,”) I would encourage you to also speak with your professor about this matter, first.
Most graduate programs that I am familiar with would not be comfortable having their students incur such a cost!
Best wishes to you on your journey! I hope you’ll be back here often when you need advice or simply want to connect with your colleagues and peers!
I did not know about the costs until after graduate school but I would be in trouble if that’s what people charged here. Most people here charge around $50 / session, which feels MUCH more reasonable than the amounts you mentioned. Now as a fully licensed professional, I feel it is our ethical responsibility to supervise at a reasonable cost if we are qualified to do so. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
This was a great article. Thank you!
Tamara,
I so much appreciate your gracefulness in responding to all these comments, especially those in heated opposition. I too am a clinical supervisor, absolutely love it, but also appreciate the clarity in the amount of effort needed to provide truly effective competent supervision, the amount of liability a clinical supervisor takes on, and the sheer years of experience and training you need to do this effectively. It is frustrating that it is people in our own field that hold the field back – the view that because we are social workers or counselors that we should be expected to volunteer our time and we should be expected to be paid poorly. It’s this inappropriate relationship with money that tends to keep our field underpaid for the services we provide (unfortunately this norm is perpetuated by our own colleagues). The reality is, people to pursue their clinical license. They chose to spend money on their Master’s degree, why wouldn’t they assume that they should pay should also pay for the highest level of licensure you can receive.
So thank you! Spot on and so helpful!
Lee! That is so kind of you to take the time to weigh in here!
I appreciate your voice here.
I think part of that “grace” is no different than the same grace that we are hopefully extending to our clients, right?
Besides, some of these different and “heated” positions remind me of my own history of naiveté’, my own sense of self-righteousness, my own desire to serve, and my own defensiveness early on in the field.
In saying that, I am not referencing anyone else who holds these positions that are different than my own; just reflecting on my own development as a counselor and acknowledging that many of my own positions related to money have shifted over time as I have continued to work on my own money issues and privilege.
It’s been a journey for me to get to my current understanding of money’s role in my life / in my practice and I imagine that should be true for many of us.
Professional development includes personal development in the field of mental health.
Hi Tamara! This information is helpful. I am currently working as an intern in a substance abuse facility. I want to work with kids eventually. After graduation, I am being offered a job at this facility and will get free supervision. I’m wondering if staying here is a good choice or if it will hurt my chances of doing play therapy in the future? What do you think? Hard decisions.
Holly, this is such a great question and the answer is not a fuzzy one.
Substance abuse is such a pervasive problem and there are far too many therapists that are knowledgable about the family dynamics of it.
Your experience in substance abuse will only be an asset to you going forward and will make you highly marketable.
Anyone working with the little ones is going to tell you that there will always be parents and caretakers that you must interact with, educate, persuade, and sometimes challenge – and that substance abuse will impact the lives of many of those children that you work with.
I appreciate you considering the intersection of these two areas of specialization and am grateful to know that you are in our field!
I am a new graduate in Mental Health Counseling and this is new information for me, unfortunately.
Jamie, I am so sorry to hear this and glad you now know.
I didn’t know either at the time I entered graduate school
We just don’t know what we don’t know to ask about.
That this was not addressed at the onset of your graduate program is definitely a failing of the institution – and that’s the case for too many of us as we enter our professional training!
I hope you will make sure that those coming behind you know up front that our investment in our professional development does not end upon graduation.
Wishing you the best on your journey and I hope you’ll drop back in here often to chat!
What we owe to the next generation is not the love for money but the love for people. If a person needs help would you kick them out your office because they don’t have this big amount of money you are asking them to pay?
Aaahhhahahahah! Sharon! I responded to your other comment before reading this one. Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying?
Through my work in teaching, training, and counseling counselors, I don’t think I’ve met one who has focused his / her work on anything other than the love for people.
Nor do I know of any professional who has kicked a client out of their office because of a lack of money.
Every professional I know personally has gone out of their way to accommodate clients’ financial constraints on a repeated bases.
I appreciate you saying that you do the same but I’m not sure I understand who you are asking the question to . . . .
I hope you’ll drop back in to clarify!
Hi. I am from Texas. I am going to graduate soon and had a question about the responsibilities of the LPC-supervisor. I understand they are responsible for all decisions made or not made regarding clients; however, are they ethically or legally responsible for payments made to me if I had my own practice? Does my site supervisor have to have a w-2 for me?
YIKES, Amelia! You’ve ventured a little too far outside the scope of this post and my knowledge base!
I suggest you speak with your ethics professor in your program or a mental health attorney who is practicing in Texas.
State laws vary considerably and I wouldn’t want to steer you wrong.
Feel free to drop back in right here and let us know what you learn!
Best wishes on your journey!
So disappointing. I was really looking forward to begin my counselling career until I saw the price supervisors are charging $100. After all we have been taught about empathy to be met with these huge costs. All I can do is just forget about a career in Counselling. Very discouraging and most sad. There’s no humanity left in humanity when a profession built on caring for others does this. Yes I’m in the wrong profession. This is all about money not helping others at all.
Oh, David! I”m so very sorry that this has been your experience.
I hope you will have opportunities to continue the dialogue and understanding around the field of mental health and find a space that is welcoming for you.
I am into my first year of this graduate program and had absolutely no idea that my supervision hours would cost me. I have sacrificed so much just to get this far, have very few funds, and watch every penny. Very disappointed that this is not discussed when applying into the program.
Carol, I know, I know!
I, too, had no idea and when I learned about it . . . it was a scary reality to consider!
That’s exactly why I wrote about it here.
And, thank you so much for taking time to underscore the importance of training programs candidly and clearly addressing this up front.
Wishing you well on your journey!